Willys Tornado Flow Data

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Giving credit where credit is do : The Tornado engine was designed by A.C. "Sammy" Sampietro . He was the chief engineer for Kaiser -Willys Jeep in the mid  to early 60s. Before that he worked with Donald Healey on the early Healey s including the Nash Healeys . He also developed a hemi head  oppose valve engine for the Le Mans Nash Healys car X5 , an experimental engine which sadly was not developed enough to finish the race. Only three head setup for the Nash's were made. One was destroyed in the race at Le Man , another was lost,and third is on a Nash Healey . The photos of that engine are on another section of this AMC forum. LRDaum

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
mramc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/12/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3223	Post Options Post Reply Quote mramc Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: May/20/2019 at 5:46pm
	Giving credit where credit is do : The Tornado engine was designed by A.C. "Sammy" Sampietro . He was the chief engineer for Kaiser -Willys Jeep in the mid to early 60s. Before that he worked with Donald Healey on the early Healey s including the Nash Healeys . He also developed a hemi head oppose valve engine for the Le Mans Nash Healys car X5 , an experimental engine which sadly was not developed enough to finish the race. Only three head setup for the Nash's were made. One was destroyed in the race at Le Man , another was lost,and third is on a Nash Healey . The photos of that engine are on another section of this AMC forum. LRDaum
	LRDaum

offthebeatenpath Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/11/2020 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote offthebeatenpath Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/11/2020 at 4:39pm
	I found this thread via Google..... I know I'm a year plus late to the party. While I was searching for pistons to rebuild the 230 Tornado out of my '65 Gladiator pickup. This is exactly why I want to rebuild it and keep it on the road! Though, by God, it's effing hard to find parts for this thing!!!! The truck won't be a concours restoration, the body is too far gone for that. But the engine will be done right. I just don't want to dump $1000-1400 for custom pistons, and that's what I'm being quoted. Can anyone shed some light on other tricks or tips I ought to do as I'm putting this thing back together? Better oiling? Less leaks?

CamJam Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: Jan/04/2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 6553	Post Options Post Reply Quote CamJam Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/11/2020 at 9:52pm
	Great thread! I didn't know the history of this engine.
	'73 Javelin 360 (current project) '72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST '69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

Ken_Parkman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken_Parkman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/11/2020 at 10:29pm
	I have discovered a lot of details that might be of use to you; and made a build thread talking about it over at the old Willys Forum: https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/tornado-build-thread.15575/ Parts do show up on eBay off and on, and I just noticed a set of pistons. I scavenged a set of NOS pistons and sleeved the block back to standard. You can find parts at a reasonable price if you are patient. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-Willys-NOS-6-230-Tornado-Engine-Piston-Pin-Full-Set-926076-Standard-Bore/224113435646?hash=item342e33a3fe:g:Ar4AAOSwrH1fMcnJ I'm always looking to track the differences if you want to add your engine to my spreadsheet. Edited by Ken_Parkman - Aug/11/2020 at 10:33pm

Ken_Parkman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken_Parkman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/11/2020 at 10:35pm
	I don't know why the first link won't work - for some reason it is adding %20 to the end of the link. When I take that off in my computer it works.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/11/2020 at 10:46pm
	After about the first year of production most of the bugs were worked out. Unless you have an early engine you shouldn't have a problem with excessive leaks or anything else. The military used that engine right up through 1976. Better trained mechanics who couldn't walk away from things they didn't like or understand for one thing! They served through Vietnam, where most were used up. Army thought them a bit under powered, and they were for that kind of work. Gearing made up for a lot, the Army trucks would only run about 55 and were screaming then with 5.87 gears and no OD.
	Frank Swygert

offthebeatenpath Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/11/2020 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote offthebeatenpath Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/13/2020 at 9:33am
	Thanks Ken! I'll check out your build thread for sure. The network at my office isn't letting me onto the Old Willys site right now, so I'll have to do it this weekend at home. At the moment, I have 2 blocks/2 heads/3 sets of used pistons, and don't have enough to put this thing back together. I'm in Southwestern Montana, so my options for good machine shops are few and far between, and costs are high. I did see that set of stock pistons, but so far the most affordable sleeving quote I've gotten is about $900, so not much cheaper than custom pistons. Hahaha! I've had no choice but to be patient! It is a good exercise though, to remind myself that I truly have no deadline for this truck, I just don't want to lose momentum. I'm making progress though, and that helps a lot. What do you know about the two different compression options I've heard about for this engine? How would I know which engine or pistons I have? Edit: And, do you have any sources for pistons? I am completely striking out: Here's the progress I've made: BJ's Offroad - nope Kanter Auto - nope Walack's 4wd - nope Willy's Works - nope Willy's America - nope Kaiser Willys - nope Vintage Power Wagon - nope Memphis Equip - 1 set of standard bore Surplus City - nope Midwest Military - nope Peter DeBella - nope Rudy Phillips - nope Border Parts CA - nope Egge Machine - Custom made $1400/set, w/out rings. eBay - hit or miss. Mostly miss in my case. Edited by offthebeatenpath - Aug/13/2020 at 12:46pm

Ken_Parkman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken_Parkman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/13/2020 at 2:49pm
	BTW - with the character flaw of not being able to leave well enough alone I cleaned up the head, knocked a few corners off, and did a good valve job on the head. Not really porting as this thing is plenty big enough already and there in no need to reduce the velocity. Does it ever flow!! That's actually nuts for a 38 cu in cylinder that might spin 4000 rpm. No wonder they raced these things - and spun them a lot higher than 4000. .100. 62. 45 .200. 136. 97 .300. 187. 109 .400. 214. 131 .500. 231. 151 .600. 236. 162 That was with the head core plugs and other valves out to minimize the 3 cylinder integral intake effect and make it sorta comparable to a bare head. With the thing fully assembled including intake manifold it really knocked the flow down, but still lots for a 4000 rpm engine. I could only get .470" lift with valve seals installed. .100 61.4 .200 122 .300 158.2 .400 174.4 .470 180.9

Ken_Parkman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken_Parkman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/13/2020 at 3:06pm
	There's a lot of improvements they made, with a lot of detail in that thread, and I have a few more things to add, but now of off on a different project. Going to make a set of plate braces. Snap a few pics of the head around the front and also the exhaust spring seat area. Have a look at the tracking spreadsheet in the first post and give me the casting numbers and dates and I will add. Willys America website lists pistons, but they don't have any? You seem to have checked way more than I know of. NOS ones in various oversizes do show up on Ebay from time to time, and also the forged TRW pistons. Used is a problem because of the rod bushings cause the pins to beat on the retaining rings - they seem to almost all have damaged retaining ring grooves. I've not seen a stock M715 or low compression piston but am told there is a lot less dome. I did chart some compression height changes but I think that is aftermarket. Memphis equipment would likely be low compression M715.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/13/2020 at 3:28pm
	$1400 from Egge!!! I was going to suggest them... Try contacting this crowd: https://www.facebook.com/Club.Torino.Argentino/ Might be cheaper to get a set of pistons imported from Argentina than to have them made by Egge. I've also read that shipping from Argentina is very cost prohibitive though. That was in a Willys Jeep forum about shipping a head or split exhaust manifolds though, pistons should be cheaper. With the exchange rate between US dollars and Argentine Pesos the cost is relatively cheap, except for the shipping fees. Probably because they are shipped via air and not much runs between the US and Argentina. Shipping by boat might take forever, and parts could get lost...
	Frank Swygert