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Willys Tornado Flow Data |
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FSJunkie 
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Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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 Posted: Mar/20/2019 at 1:00am |
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Kaiser-Jeep was very innovative.
I marvel at how many models of J-100 there were in the early 1960's. J-100 Panel Delivery. J-100 Panel Delivery Custom. J-100 Wagoneer 2-door. J-100 Wagoneer 2-door Custom. J-100 Wagoneer 4-door. J-100 Wagoneer 4-door Custom. All available in either two wheel drive or four wheel drive, and in solid axle or independent axle for both drives. There were power take off options, indicator lights for the 4wd system, hidden compartments, an overhead cam engine, optional overdrive on two wheel drive models, a unique single speed transfer case on automatic transmission models, and all kinds of other innovative ideas. But, by 1969, all that were left were the 4-door Wagoneers with four wheel drive, solid axles, and old fogey pushrod engines. The other models never sold well, so they were dropped. The neat innovative ideas slowly vanished year by year until AMC finished the off in 1972-1975. Then AMC had this weird idea to combine the Panel Delivery and the Wagoneer 2-door together to form the Cherokee. My Wagoneer is a 1972, so the only thing AMC about it is the engine. That's literally all it is. It still has a lot of the Kaiser designs in it. Edited by FSJunkie - Mar/20/2019 at 1:02am |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum 
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19675 |
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Posted: Mar/20/2019 at 6:04am |
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All the FSJs have a lot of the Kaiser design in them! There were only minor modifications to the body panels from 63-91, most will interchange (might need to adjust some crew holes). If you take the full width grille off a later model you will find the front piece behind it is the same as the original gladiator "rhino" grille panel. tabs were added to mount the full width grille and headlight buckets for the rectangular headlights are screwed on over the original round openings -- the stamping is the same. The plan for the J-10 I was rebuilding (and regretfully abandoned and sold off parts) was to get a rhino grille and revert to the original front end style, and to make it look similar to an M-715. The M-715 had no grille, just a tubular grille guard, and I was considering that... It's really too bad AMC didn't reintroduce the IFS when they took the Wagoneer upscale. Probably would have been too costly for the relatively minor ride improvement, which no one really seemed to want or care about...
Edited by farna - Mar/20/2019 at 6:06am |
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Frank Swygert
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jpnjim
AMC Addicted
Joined: Nov/25/2007 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2752 |
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Posted: Mar/20/2019 at 8:04pm |
I guess they didn't want to spend the money changing over, even when all the engineering was done and paid for. I'm not an IFS fan anyway, but I never understood late model Grand Wagoneers having underdash AC units when Waggy's in the 1960's had an integrated in dash AC system. It's a shame the coil spring Full Size Jeep suspension had to wait until Chrysler gave it the go-ahead to use on the Ram complete clean sheet restyle in the 1990's. I'd like to have seen the FSJ get the benefit of the tech developed for it, Imagine a clean sheet of the Jeep Pickup line instead, with a Magnum MPI modernized AMC V8's as intended (instead of using it to revamp the Mopar LA engines), base engine (in my fantasy lol) would be a factory 4.5L stroker 4.0L. Even without pickup trucks, Jeep is considered one of the most valuable vehicle brands. Imagine if AMC had their own funds to develop all the ideas it had for Jeep alone, without diluting them through the rest of the Chrysler lineup. Oh well, I guess we should be happy Jeep still exists today at all.
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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords |
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tomj
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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Posted: Mar/20/2019 at 9:27pm |
yup, and it's funny too as i see a lot of early 60's 10/80 series wagon styling in them as well. mainly the rear treatment.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 3:09am |
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Jeep made the Wagoneer chassis less like a passenger car and more like a truck as time went on. It became simpler, stronger, and better able to handle hard use from towing, hauling, and rough roads. It rode stiffer, but buyers didn't mind because they're the ones who wanted the Wagoneer to be tougher anyway. Sure, they wanted all the fake wood and leather that was added on in later years too, but they also wanted a rough and tumble truck chassis and the early Wagoneer chassis was not rough and tumble. It was a light duty chassis intended to produce a smooth passenger car ride, hence the IFS.
The IFS went away as a result of buyers caring less about a smooth ride and more about having a simple and tough chassis that did the job without breaking or needing a lot of maintenance. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19675 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 5:17am |
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A lot of AMC/Jeep tech went into later Jeep and Chrysler products, as stated. The 4.7L V-8 is mostly the AMC design for the 360 replacement (with some refinement by Chrysler and Mercedes engineers). Suspension on the Grand Cherokee. Even the front clip design of the RAM trucks was at least inspired by the design for the new Jeep pickup/Grand Wagoneer replacement. Even Chrysler admitted to getting a lot more than they expected from buying AMC, and many journalists at least recognized that fact a couple years after the buy-out, with some saying AMC "saved" Chrysler due to a lot of engineering and cost saving tech and strategy AMC had developed. Remember, the LH cars were based on the Premier, since Chrysler was having trouble with their own K-car replacement platform development. That alone saved them much of what they spent acquiring AMC.
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Frank Swygert
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Jmerican
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Joined: Mar/29/2016 Location: Seattle, Wa Status: Offline Points: 585 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 12:55pm |
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this is good stuff. I’m not the forum patrol but may end we should bust into some Jeep conversation on a different thread.
And I dig Ken’s project. And this is fun.
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 1:36pm |
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I believe conversations should go their natural direction and the thread can be moved if it needs to. Interesting conversation should not end because of where the thread is located.
AMC's contribution to Chrysler is why it bothers me when people say, "If AMC made such good cars, then why did they go out of business? Obviously they didn't make good cars or they'd still be around." The answer is they made great cars but were a smaller company with financial troubles that made them easy for a larger company to buy. Chrysler bought AMC because Chrysler saw greatness in the cars and designs that AMC had along with their assets like production facilities and employees. Chrysler would not have bought AMC if AMC didn't have good things to offer. "If AMC made cars that people wanted to buy, then more people would have bought their cars and they'd still be around." That bothers me too, because Chevrolet made the kind of cars that people wanted to buy and they are still around, but that doesn't mean they are technically a superior car. It just means they are what the majority of people want, which may be cheap crap. Lots of companies that built excellent cars, often regarded as the best cars ever made, are no longer around because of financial trouble and being bought by a larger company. Packard, Pierce-Arrow, Duesenberg, Graham, Kaiser, Frazer, Peerless, Franklin, Paige, Stutz, Mercer... |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Online Points: 1813 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 4:45pm |
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I want to make it a stock restoration, with a couple of very limited upgrades. The stock brakes were obsolete when the truck was new, so I'm improving them to the newer drum system that is self energizing. Still looks stock, but twice the braking power. I want to be able to drive it so that is why (along with the cool factor) I specifically went hunting for a Tornado engine truck - the 5.38 gears and 72 hp on the Hurricane truck just won't do in todays world. Probably going to go with an OD cause it is so simple on the D 18 transfer case.
One big debate is how hard to hunt for one of those Argentinean dual outlet exhaust manifolds - those are also beyond cool - but not stock looking. Need someone from Argentina to help! The IR and Webber really high performance stuff would also be beyond cool - but that is really getting far from stock looking.
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Trader
AMC Addicted
Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6875 |
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Posted: Mar/21/2019 at 9:05pm |
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farna wrote: