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Vertical Mill |
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457 |
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Posted: Nov/07/2021 at 2:22pm |
I am in the market for a vertical mill. Intent is to use it mostly for
head work, guides, seats, resurface the face. Have about a $7K budget.
1) Are my goals achievable with a bench mill? I looked on some machinist forums and the negatively was almost pouring out of my monitor. 2) What mill would you recommend? I've looked at a lot of the Chinesium mills (seems that's all there is currently) and the Precision Mathews seems to be a good choice but I am not saying they are the best choice. 3) Used? I've looked at used mills, primarily the Bridgeport Series 1 and for the most part they are hundreds of miles away with no means to load them out IF they are to be found. One that was advertised locally looked like it came from the hold of the Titanic. What are your thoughts? Do you have any recommendations? Would appreciate any and all comments. I've been called an idiot before so nothing earth-shattering there! |
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881 |
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Look for a Bridgeport or Bridgeport clone made in Taiwan. The Taiwan machines are much better quality then the Chinese to the point that they can exceed an original Bridgeport knee mill for accuracy.
You need weight for accuracy, floor model. 9x42 will do but a 10x50 allows more room for clamping to the table. 3 to 3.5 HP is fine for any head work. Watch out for odd tooling. You want something with readily available tooling like a CAT-40 taper holder or R8 (R8 limits you to smaller cutters). We had an NMTB-35 at my old workplace that was almost useless, as we could not get tooling for it. Budged looks fine but you will likely have to bide your time to find one available. Good luck!
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PROSTOCKTOM
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/20/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 2450 |
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Here's the Hurco I bought for the $1200. Just keep looking and asking around your area. One will pop up at the right price. Sorry for Dad in the photos. What I call dirty milling. Tom Edited by PROSTOCKTOM - Nov/09/2021 at 1:34am |
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Molnar Technologies Full Service Dealer - Crankshafts & Connecting Rods
1969 AMC Rambler Rouge Race Car 1974 AMC Hornet Hatchback, Wally Booth Outlaw Nostalgic Pro Stock Race Car Project |
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457 |
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Tom, thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate it. Don't worry about Dad in the photos, I wish mine was still around so I could include him in photos. |
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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mbwicz
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Feb/20/2019 Location: Buffalo, NY Status: Offline Points: 1989 |
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You may wanna check if any machine shops are upgrading their equipment, or have an older machine that they no longer use. Its a long shot, but they may know someone with a machine that will suit your needs. Good luck.
Mike |
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1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.
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tufcj
Supporter of TheAMCForum Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Watkins, CO Status: Offline Points: 4086 |
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I'm sure you've heard of them. I have a couple of items from https://grizzly.com They are Chinese, but quality is good for an occasionally used item. Bob tufcj
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69 AMX
74 Javelin AMX 67 Rogue If you need a tool and don't buy it... you'll eventually pay for it... and not have it. Henry Ford |
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401MATCOUPE
AMC Addicted Joined: May/20/2010 Location: Salisbury, MD Status: Offline Points: 5367 |
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Roger,
Alot of good advise here already!! Here is my best advise after using and repairing so many makes of Vertical Milling Machines over the past 40+ years. Size matters!!! Forget the knee mills, pretty useless for any head work...the table movement will just not help your accuracy. I would personally buy nothing but a Bridgeport Brand machine......I am just not a fan of import clones, newer ones I understand are pretty decent, but parts are always my concern. You can buy anything for a Bridgeport, they are lots of folks make spares of the common repair parts. A shop I worked at when I was very young had 3 XLO (Ex-Cell-O) made in Canada, we had so many problems with the head and getting parts was such a problem, we sold all of them and bought used Series 1, Variable Speed Machines. I literally grew up with a V-Ram Step Pulley Machine with a 9 x 36 table and 9 inch Y axis travel, one shot oiler and no power feeds, Bridgeport Vise. It was single phase a gently used, from a flood that got up to the table......that machine taught me what to buy and look for when I bought one.....I only wanted to do this once. I found a Series 1 Variable Speed Machine in the local paper (Baltimore) at a tool shop that was down sizing, still under power.....make sure it it still under power, the heads can be VERY expensive to fix when heavily worn. It had a 9 x 48 table, 12" Y axis movement, X Axis Power feed, one shot oiler, R-8 Spindle, chrome ways, Kurt Vise with swivel base, 2 large boxes of R-8.....freshly serviced by Bridgeport Field Service with new belts and bushings on the motor drive for $3000 (1995) and best off it is a 1982 model. The key things you need to look for what tooling comes with it.....just look up what a Kurt D675 vise and swivel base runs these days!!! R-8 spindle tooling is so versatile, unless you were doing heavy work, stick with R-8, Cat 40 adapters are expensive and so is direct mount tooling. Even all the hold down tooling based on 5/8" table slots are super inexpensive and will save you tons of money......there is a wide range Bridgeports.....or check out the Brand X, the lack of parts and support on brand X scares me that I wasted money. I have just about every attachment they made for my Bridgeport, found them over a lot of years at auctions for great prices.....like 2 different head spacers, to get more z axis clearance, horizontal milling attachment for slotting, slab milling, dividing heads (12 and 15") and horizontal tombstones for each, 2 Kurt D675 vises, X and Y Servo Brand Turbo Drives, Z axis digital readout, Acu-Rite Master-MP X-Y Digital Readout, Ball Screws for the X and Y Axis's........I upgraded all drives and digitals as I got more jobs. BUT if you can get all that on a good machine, you are way ahead.....look up what this stuff costs, some has gone up and some has gone down since I put my machine to its current condition. The digital read outs are about 1/3 the price they used to be..... a full up Bridgeport is only 2000#, but you can easily break it down to much lighter chunks and get it home in a few pick up loads or on a car trailer......just get the machine bed down as low as you can and turn the head upside down or at least 90 degrees from vertical.........the bed come off very easy too. I can send you a copy of the Bridgeport book on set up and such if that helps you. I brought mine home in the bed of a 92 Ford F-350 Super Duty!!.......no matter what they are still top heavy. I hope this helps you, you enough budget at $7K to buy a very nice machine.....with some good tooling.
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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar) 68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A 69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8 70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO 74MatX,401,AT,Prototype 74MatX,401,AT |
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457 |
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Ross, thanks for your very detailed response. I am keeping a file of recommendations so I don't have to bother people again. I do have to question your comment about doing head work on a vertical mill. Looking at a head only machine like a Peterson or a Kwik Way you'd have about the same investment in a special purpose machine that you would in a general purpose machine. I just can't see there being that much difference in capability. For primary head work such as guides and seats, why wouldn't a vertical mill work? As to head resurfacing, I have read comments all over the map. Just don't know. In any event, I have sat back and reconsidered my priorities. Right now with winter coming on I don't really want to be running around in inclement weather freezing my nuggies off looking at mills hundreds of miles away. So I have gone to what was priority #2, a dustless blaster. I'll pursue that this winter and get back on the mill this summer. Hope to talk to you at Kenosha next year. It's been too long.
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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Hurst390
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/20/2008 Location: secret Status: Offline Points: 5818 |
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Buy a head and guide machine for head work.
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SC/Hurst Rambler
11.62 120 100% Street Legal |
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457 |
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Okay, what advantage would a head and guide machine have over a vertical mill? If I look at something like a Peterson TCM-25, other than the fixture for holding a head it looks like a kissing cousin to a bottom of the barrel bench mill.
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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