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Type I, Type II and Group 19 camshaft

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Steve_P View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 9:48am
Originally posted by mramc mramc wrote:

OK, The group 19 cam was a period crane fireball cam shaft. It has 302 duration listed and I'm not sure of the duration. The type II camshaft your talking about is the white stripe or Rebel Machine camshaft . Off the top of my head it I recall correctly the cam was listed as a 296 /302 duration....... LRDaum  



The Group 19 cam is different from the Crane Fireball cam. The duration and lift are the same, but the timing is different. I made this mistake years ago just looking at the lift and duration and was corrected, and when I looked at the timing I saw the difference.
I have a NOS 68, 70 type 1, 70 type 2 cam and will someday get the specs on them and compare the .005 and .050 duration and lift profiles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Steve_P Steve_P wrote:

Originally posted by mramc mramc wrote:

OK, The group 19 cam was a period crane fireball cam shaft. It has 302 duration listed and I'm not sure of the duration. The type II camshaft your talking about is the white stripe or Rebel Machine camshaft . Off the top of my head it I recall correctly the cam was listed as a 296 /302 duration....... LRDaum  



The Group 19 cam is different from the Crane Fireball cam. The duration and lift are the same, but the timing is different. I made this mistake years ago just looking at the lift and duration and was corrected, and when I looked at the timing I saw the difference.
I have a NOS 68, 70 type 1, 70 type 2 cam and will someday get the specs on them and compare the .005 and .050 duration and lift profiles
Interesting. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 12:53pm
More cool drawings.
IMG_3758 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
IMG_3757 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
IMG_3756 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Edited by SC397 - Jul/30/2020 at 12:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Steve_P Steve_P wrote:

Originally posted by mramc mramc wrote:

OK, The group 19 cam was a period crane fireball cam shaft. It has 302 duration listed and I'm not sure of the duration. The type II camshaft your talking about is the white stripe or Rebel Machine camshaft . Off the top of my head it I recall correctly the cam was listed as a 296 /302 duration....... LRDaum  



The Group 19 cam is different from the Crane Fireball cam. The duration and lift are the same, but the timing is different. I made this mistake years ago just looking at the lift and duration and was corrected, and when I looked at the timing I saw the difference.
I have a NOS 68, 70 type 1, 70 type 2 cam and will someday get the specs on them and compare the .005 and .050 duration and lift profiles
I'm going to take a guess that the 68 and the 70 Type 1 are identical and have 196 duration at .050 on 111 lobe centers with .425 lift, and that the Type 2 will be the same as the 401 cam, and have 207/208 duration on 114 lobe centers with .457 lift. 

My guess on open/close numbers at .050 are:
Type 1
IO: -(11)
IC:   27
EO:  31
EC: -(15)

Type 2 (if it is same as 401)
IO: -(7)
IC:   34
EO:  42
EC: -(14)


Edited by Sonic Silver - Jul/30/2020 at 2:20pm
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SC397 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 3:23pm
Reference material. The WG1115 is the stock cam.  Not sure if it is 100% exact but I used the WG992 as the Group 19 cam.
IMG_3759 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2020 at 5:12pm
I meant to post this up yesterday with the parts catalog listing:


I've finally given up drinking for good...........now I only drink for evil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2020 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

Originally posted by Steve_P Steve_P wrote:

Originally posted by mramc mramc wrote:

OK, The group 19 cam was a period crane fireball cam shaft. It has 302 duration listed and I'm not sure of the duration. The type II camshaft your talking about is the white stripe or Rebel Machine camshaft . Off the top of my head it I recall correctly the cam was listed as a 296 /302 duration....... LRDaum  



The Group 19 cam is different from the Crane Fireball cam. The duration and lift are the same, but the timing is different. I made this mistake years ago just looking at the lift and duration and was corrected, and when I looked at the timing I saw the difference.
I have a NOS 68, 70 type 1, 70 type 2 cam and will someday get the specs on them and compare the .005 and .050 duration and lift profiles
I'm going to take a guess that the 68 and the 70 Type 1 are identical and have 196 duration at .050 on 111 lobe centers with .425 lift, and that the Type 2 will be the same as the 401 cam, and have 207/208 duration on 114 lobe centers with .457 lift. 

My guess on open/close numbers at .050 are:
Type 1
IO: -(11)
IC:   27
EO:  31
EC: -(15)

Type 2 (if it is same as 401)
IO: -(7)
IC:   34
EO:  42
EC: -(14)



D'oh! You're right on the 68 and 70 type 1 being the same- brain fade on that one. I have a NOS 68, NOS 70 type 2, and also a used 401 cam as a future comparison project. But it looks like the pictures above take care of the 68-70E cam. Thanks for posting that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2020 at 11:41am
The Blue Racer '992 is extremely close, but not quite the same. The Group 19 cam was installed slightly retarded while the '992 looks to be straight up. Other measurements such as duration at .050 and lobe centers are probably slightly off too. 

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2020 at 2:38pm

These pages shows up in previous posts, what cam is this?




Edited by Trader - Jul/31/2020 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/31/2020 at 3:41pm
The first one is the factory spec sheet for the Group 19 cam and the other one seems to be the AMA specs as issued right around the changeover from the Type 1 to the Type 2 cam in the 390 in fall of 1969. 

Chris 
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