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Twin Stick OD Problem |
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toddb
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/08/2017 Location: Niles. MI Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Posted: Jun/19/2022 at 12:25pm |
I'm finishing up my 65 Marlin, 327 Twin Stick and am having a problem getting into overdrive. All the wiring is correct and checks OK and seems to operate according to the FSM tests but when I get out on the road, it stalls the engine when it tries to go into overdrive. It seems like it would have something to do with vacuum control to the negative side of the coil??? the FSM doesn't really get into what to look at or where to meter/test for that. The relay is new but everything else is original. This is the diagram I'm using. Any help is much appreciated. |
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65 Marlin 327 Twin Stick 65 Marlin 327 Flash-O-Matic |
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Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814 |
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Can you post the description from the manual? I'm familiar with the Willys version of the BWOD but not the twin stick Rambler version. If it stalls it sounds like there is something wrong with the kickdown ignition ground circuit, but I can't figure out what that vacuum switch is supposed to do from the wiring diagram.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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I would have to pore over the manual for details but the kickdown system momentarily shorts the points to make the engine stop running for a few cylinder firings, enough to take torque off the pawl and allow it to fall out of place. They act is supposed to open the relay that is applying the short to the coil.
Press the switch, coil shorts, motor stops pushing, trans falls out of OD, cool unshorts. Short term fix and diagnostic, take the wire off the coil so it can't short. You can then get into OD by letting off the throttle. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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toddb
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/08/2017 Location: Niles. MI Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Thanks. I'm pretty sure it is something in the kickdown circuit. The only thing I have no idea how to test is the vacuum switch. i have a suspicion the switch is sticking when it kicks into overdrive but looking at the diagram, I don't see how that could be the problem. |
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65 Marlin 327 Twin Stick 65 Marlin 327 Flash-O-Matic |
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toddb
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/08/2017 Location: Niles. MI Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I've checked with a few people and it almost has to be the vacuum switch. Now, does anyone have any ideas where one might be found? The Part # is 316 7316. I checked all the main AMC guys and none around. Does anyone know where I might be able to get mine rebuilt. Thanks |
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65 Marlin 327 Twin Stick 65 Marlin 327 Flash-O-Matic |
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Heavy 488
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/27/2019 Location: In the Status: Offline Points: 3553 |
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Look online for Hobbs vacuum switch
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toddb
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/08/2017 Location: Niles. MI Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Thanks, Hobbs should have something that would work. I just need to figure out exactly what it does and at what PSI. I think it closes when the vacuum is below a certain point, but I'm not sure what PSI that would be? |
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65 Marlin 327 Twin Stick 65 Marlin 327 Flash-O-Matic |
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Heavy 488
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/27/2019 Location: In the Status: Offline Points: 3553 |
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Vacuum goes high when you lighten up on the throttle to release the load so maybe in the low 20's. Look for any markings on the original.
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toddb
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/08/2017 Location: Niles. MI Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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You're right, had a little back-asswards thinking there for a minute. I still don't see why kicking in to OD would cause it to stall. If the relay is energized, the NC would open not permitting the ground to go to NC to the vacuum switch and it would not matter if the vacuum switch was open or closed. I'm totally missing something here. Then again I still haven't figured out exactly what the resistor is for either. |
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65 Marlin 327 Twin Stick 65 Marlin 327 Flash-O-Matic |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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I don't think you have to have the vacuum switch. It appears to be a safety switch of some sort so that the coil won't be grounded with the engine running. So to test your system wire around it -- connect the two leads together. BUT FIRST make sure the switch is not normally closed -- closed with the engine off. From what I can see it should be open with engine off, closed with engine running. There is no clear indication of what the vacuum switch is for in the TSM. I think it's to prevent dropping out of overdrive during acceleration, as that would be bad! During acceleration there is low vacuum, so the switch would open. Let off the gas pedal and there is high vacuum, so the switch is closed. This isn't mentioned in the TSM -- the vacuum switch isn't mentioned at all! You can test the vacuum switch by checking continuity with engine off (should be open) and with engine idling (should be high vacuum and contacts closed). At least that's how I THINK it should be working... You have to understand how shifting is conducted with the Twin-Stick. Start off in first gear, use clutch and shift to second. Let off gas pedal so OD activates, shifting to "third" (2+OD). HIT THE KICK-DOWN BUTTON ON TOP OF THE GEAR SHIFT AS YOU USE THE CLUTCH TO SHIFT TO THIRD (fourth forward gear). You do those two simultaneously, and that is when torque on the trans could damage the OD unit. To prevent this there is the vacuum switch -- just in case you don't use the clutch or have the gas pedal down a bit when OD is trying to drop out. Once in (actual) third let off the gas to automatically shift into "fifth" gear. This only works because there is a big gap between actual 2nd and 3rd in a Twin-Stick trans. On a normal three speed with OD there is little difference between 2+OD and 3rd. Down-shifting can't be done through all five forward gears. You have to hit the kick-down button to drop from "5th" to "4th". Then you use the clutch and drop all the way to 2nd (actual 2nd), skipping "third" (2+OD). These are older non synchro first/reverse trannys -- you should NEVER down-shift into first unless at (or very near) a complete stop.
Edited by farna - Jun/26/2022 at 1:45pm |
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Frank Swygert
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