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trunnion question |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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OK, good points. And sure, a small tack wouldn't hurt, and would be a decent indicator should it crack loose and rotate. And this stuff is old, especially when you have less-than-optimum used parts. I take it back, you're right. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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sjaakslinger
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/05/2011 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Thanks again. I'll have another go this saturday. I'll let you know how it works out.
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sjaakslinger
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/05/2011 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Had another go today. The passenger side went pretty easy last week, but the drivers side is a b#tch somehow.
That upper arm still gave me a hard time. Thin extra spacer didn't do the trick. Upon tightening the spacer bolt, the trunnion locked up each time, meaning I couldn't (or hardly) move it. Then someone gave me a tip; first put the upper arm on the car and then give it another try. That did the trick. I took out my self made thin spacer and everything worked out for the upper arm, even after tightening the spacer bolt to TSM torque specs. That motivated me to get going with the lower arm, but that didn't go flawless... Coudn't get the strut rod in. The lower control arms holes for the strut rod were anout half an inch off. I tightened the strut rods bolt (at chassis bracket) very tight in an order to get the holes of the lower arm and strut rod lined up. Didn't work. Then I loosened the upper and lower arms bolts. Adjusted the cam/caster bolts in order to rotate the upper arm forward. That apparantly also rotated the lower arm forward, so the holes lined up. That solved the strut rod issue. Still wondering about the thrust bearing though. They are new, got them from one of the AMC vendors. They did inform me that they are a fraction to large, causing them to be tightly squeezed between the upper arms. Worked fine on the passengers side, but seems to twist a bit on the drivers side. I've included some pictures. I noticed how the lower arms seem to point forward a bit, so not being totally perpendicular to the car. Caused by the strut rod I suppose. To me it seems that on the drivers side this is more pronounced. Maybe resulting in the steering pin not going straight upward into the trunnion? Or is this geometry of the lower arm - steering pin - upper arm normal? I hope my description is somehow clear. |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Looks pretty nice!
Generally speaking, you can't put the two bolts that attach strut rod to lower arm with the suspension dangling in the air. One method is to compress the spring, leaving it in place, then jacking the lower arm up close to "ride height", attach the strut, decompress the spring. The thrust bearing case is fat, apparently they just dent and work fine. I find the thrust bearing a PITA to pack with grease. I have a needle for my grease gun now, next time I'll see if that helps. NIce clean car! |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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sjaakslinger
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/05/2011 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Thanks. I did have to lift the lower arm to eventually get the bolts through.
I still have the impression though that the strut rods push the lower arms forward. Resulting in them not being prependicular to the car, maybe causing the knuckle pin not to go totally straight through the trunnion (and thrust bearing). Are the lower arms supposed to point forward of the car a bit? Doesn't really show in my picture unfortunately. How far should the knuckle pin's castle nut be tightened? Tightening it pulls the knuckle pin further upwards and straightens the thrust bearing better in it's position. Would expose the hole in the knuckle pin too much though (maybe too far above the castle nut). So: tight enough for the knuckle to still turn, or looser so the pin's hole is just about exposed? Thanks again. |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Consider what the strut rod does: it swings in an arc. The "forward reach" of the strut rod will be maximum when it's level, and closer to the rear of the car above and below. So it pulls the lower control arm BACK when the car's not level.
If there is a "length problem" with the strut rod it is probably the rubber bushing. I too trust my calibrated eyeball, but when unsure, measure -- assuming the springs are out and the car up on jackstands, jack both control arms level, and pull a string tight between left and right lower ball joint grease nipples. THe control arm inner bushing should be centered on that string. I've not done that -- but I'd be surprised if it's not pretty close to centered. If the arms droop, or raised high, the string should be behind the bushing. castellated nut: You mean on top of the trunnion? It's been 15 years since I assembled one, but I will be doign one "soon" here, but I don't have an answer now, it will take me weeks (for external reasons). Is not not in the TSM? |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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From what I read I'm pretty sure he means the castellated nut on top of the steering knuckle. On this suspension it doesn't have to be very tight, just snugged up. There should be a washer under the nut, IIRC. All it's doing is keeping the steering knuckle from coming you when the suspension drops, so if it's a little loose it won't hurt. I'd just snug it down, and if the cotter pin isn't in the notches you can put another washer under it. Or leave it. If the nut turns any it will still stop once it reaches the cotter pin.
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Frank Swygert
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sjaakslinger
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/05/2011 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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That's a good tip Tom, I'll measure it tomorrow. I used a new strut rod bushing, the double rubber with washer type. I also saw there's a single rubber type, don't know if the rubber on that one is thinner. Can't remember what was on the car when we took the strut rods off...
Yeah, I did mean the castellated nut on top of the trunnion. I was wondering that because tightening it pulls up the steering pin and thrust bearing, pulling the thrust bearing better in place between the arms. But I guess that will happen anyway when the car is back on it's wheels... Would a cotter pin be good enough, or would an original type pin be better? Thanks. Dennis |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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I think a cotter pin would be enough. Now that you mention it I remember what the original was! A cotter pin might be impossible to get in there. There is a plug on the side of the spring seat tube that you push the original in, so the castle nut has to be in just the right position. I doubt it's big enough to get a cotter pin in. Most castle nuts use a cotter pin, I forgot about this rather unique case until you mentioned it!
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Hmmm... I don't think that is the right setup for a 65. The problem is described here (my site): That page is old, so there may be more modern solutions (like, the right part). Wasn't the bushing sleeve too loose on the strut rod? If indeed you have the wrong bushing, it will definitely force the arm forward, you won't be able to set toe and it will break things.
In your position if I didn't have the correct pin (a plain drive pin) I'd just use the fattest cotter pin that fits in the hole. As Frank says it just wants to not fall off. The nut has that funny washer with two holes (I assume vent/grease path), there is a gap between washer and top of bearing cage, it just falls on top, no pressure from the nut, if memory is right. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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