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Sniper EFI on 195.6 OHV |
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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This is indeed an issue any time you have fasteners going through and having contact with fuel. Having had similar issues with the tank in my '57 Chevy, when I did the installation in my Spirit, I created an inner ring from aluminum, featuring blind fastener holes and fuel-resistant o-rings around the holes. Apologies for this tangent, Tom!
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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No worries, tangents are fine. That's part of why I don't want to modify the tank. The heat of MIG wants to warp things too, and sheet metal especially.I'm still paying off the card for the Sniper, and it's christmas, so I get to think and plan and not buy.
My current thinking is to snake the tank+sock into the hole, have it live on the floor, and have a bulkhead mounted in the flat vertical area to the left of the sender assembly. I won't be able to reach the hole from the outside, so I'll put a length of rigid (steel) fuel line inside, pre-bent, attached to the bulkhead, so that I can reach it in, push it through the hole, and put the nut on the bulkhead. Making the hole will be slightly tricky. Drill a pilot from outside, fabricate a tool to hold the cutting half of the Greenlee punch, hold it in place inside while I put the Greenlee anvil and bolt in from outside. Then I'll pull the sock off the OEM pickup and use it as the return. Not sure where to put the feed-through for the pump power wire. Maybe on the OEM pickup plate, but there's not a lot of room there. I'll put a common ground on the OEM pickup disc. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Until an hour ago I was decided I'd more or less duplicate billd's solution in that other thread Frank found -- thanks for that! -- but I stumbled on this expensive solution from Holley, found on Summi'ts page. At $400 it's pricey and I was gonna dismiss it but -- it appears to have a bypass regulator in the output line, an angled sock to follow the old pickup tube angle, lowering the pump further... and has no return line, I assume because of that regulator, and one comment on the Summit site from a purchaser that Holley said no return line is needed -- I'll verify that, but that knocks off a lot of hassle and some cost. So it goes from over-priced to merely more than I wanted to spend. The pump looks like a Walbro. It certainly fits in the hole, and might work as-is, or require minor bending of pickup and float lever. The angled sock is a definite win though.
Edited by tomj - Dec/10/2021 at 11:53am |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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The Hydramat is a major plus and is not just a "sock" -- look up some videos on it (on Holley's site or YouTube). Does the sender ohm range match what you need, though? If not, you'd need to budget in one of those adapter/translator black boxes to get the proper reading.
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
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10-73 Ohm according to the Q&A section. DMack used a Jeep unit just for the sending unit part because the Javelin ones are so far out of spec.
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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10 to 73, but I'm not sure that's what was used in 1960. THe one in there now iwas new in 1989, and I suspect "later model" as the gauge reads wrong -- full is 3/4, and at 1/4 tank on the gauge there's 9 gallons left. I recall a warning about don't ground the sensor wire too long. I obviously need to read the TSM 3 feet to my right but I'm LAZY. But will do that soon.
I am likely to get the Holley Jeep unit. It means I buy literally no plumbing parts except: EFI hose one foot), one flare nut, one flare to 6AN, a 6AN hose. No return line, no tank mods, no drilling or welding. Parts for all the home made stuff would be $300 and I'd end up with a return line, modded tank, etc. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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TomJ -- that Holley unit is so pricey because that angled sock is a piece of their Hydramat. They have a similar looking one on the Summit site (Part Number: HLY-16-116) -- it's $168.26 by itself. Judging by comparing the one they have in the kit with the the size of the fuel pump I'd say it's the same one (2.5"x8.0"). Ohm range depends on year of CJ. The early models used the same 10-73 range as AMC, Ford and Chrysler. Early Stewart-Warner, actually... probably supplied all of them (or sold manufacturing rights?). Quadratec and Crown lists 70-86 CJs as having the same 10-73 ohm unit. Should be good there if using the factory gauge. AMC used 10-73 from the 50s (Nash used the same) through 1976 -- 78 on big cars and 80 on Pacer, everything else switched to the constant voltage type in 1977, which is 33-240 ohms. Note: I could be off a year on the change... may have been 78... Edited by farna - Dec/13/2021 at 6:14am |
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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I had no idea what you were talking about, "Hydramat"! I had to google it. That's pretty neat!
But overall it's not very pricey. A Walbro pump is $100, a Jeep tank pickup/sender is $40, the bypass regulator... I dunno how to price it but whatever, they worked out the bugs, and productized it. The in-tank bypass regulator sealed the deal -- no return line plumbing. All in all that's close to $100: 25 ft roll of Cu Fe 5/16" tube, fittings, 6AN hose, etc. One less hose under the hood too. The 58 TSM is silent on sender/gauge resistances, so I got out my 300 ohm rheostat, DVM and clip leads. I determined that 10 ohms centers the needle on the full dot. 70 ohms the pointer is just below the empty dot. 56 ohms lifts the points so a tiny corner of the empty dot (square) is visible to the left of the pointer. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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It wasn't until later that the TSMs actually listed the ohms for the sending units... late 60s, maybe by 68? I'd have to look. But they are all the same. The unit actually measures something like 9-73 ohms... why the gauge will read below empty and above full. I agree that the pump with sending unit and Hydramat "filter" is a good deal -- better than building your own and paying the $168 for the Hydramat "filter" alone, for sure!!
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Guess what I got for xmas! Who could have known.
For a part from 50 years in the future, the Holley/Jeep fuel pump sender assembly is pretty close to 1960 Rambler American. There's literally one bend in the tube missing. Having stared at it now for a week, there's two short-path choices: bend the tube, or cut it and add a length of submersible fuel line, and add an external brace to hold the pump in place. Bending it is fraught with small worries. I have to heat it to prevent collapse or crack. That puts heat near the connector and possibly pump. (I'd fabricate an aluminum bolt-on heatsink, but even that's getting a bit out-there). Cutting and adding hose seems sensible. My only reservation is that there's no ridge on the tube to prevent slippage. To counter that I think the solution is to use a lot of hose, meaning enough to slip ip to the brackets already welded on the tube, then it simply can't push off. Not that I actually worry, double-EFI-clamps should be more than enough. Sender has same resistance as Rambler. I aligned the photos here carefully, the lower edge of the table is close to where the bottom of the tank is; the mounting plate is at correct height and angle (all within an inch or so). The sender from a '63. The ruined old rheostat was replaced with a Tanks Inc generic unit. This was in my roadster until I bought a baffled tank. This is the Holley Jeep pump setup. It needs bending right above the top red arrow. I think. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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