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Sniper EFI on 195.6 OHV

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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/04/2021 at 11:19pm
OMFG I can get the fuel pump, sock, pickup, wire, and return line, and probably the vent, in through the stock tank hole and use the same lock-ring system. The walbro pumps are ~ 45 mm diameter, about 2 inches. It will require a non-stock fuel level sender, but it's "Ford type", 10 to 70 ohms or whatever, Tanks Inc can be made to work.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2021 at 11:41pm
Something like this might work. I can get this into the tank with a bit of effort. I wouldn't use one of these stock setups though, the pickup tube isn't an asset and it doesn't bring much to the equation. That's the size of the Walbro pump.

The fuel sender here is a Tanks Inc generic. This one was ruined, it came out of a badly corroded tank. I chopped the rheostat off and attached this one. This was in my roadster.


I'm actually leaning towards a radically different system -- mounting the pump+sock with a small assembly that attaches to the bottom of the tank with two magnets, and a short braided cable to yank on to pull it up. Sounds hokey but it's super flexible.





1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2021 at 6:47am
So far the cable hasn't been needed. Look at billd's Eagle build - http://theamcforum.com/forum/going-for-it-eagle-heart-transplant_topic8383_page45.html.

He's been running it quite a while. Cut the pickup tube off and use a short piece of tubing. As long as the clamps are tight it's not going anywhere. The tubing will hold up with no issues, especially protected in the tank. It's submersed in gasoline, but it's fuel proof hose... Wouldn't hurt to fasten a cable to it somehow, but not really necessary.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2021 at 1:45pm
Tom, are you dead set against welding in a recess for a top-hung pump assembly?  You'd also be able to get a fuel bucket in the tank through the same access hole.  I'm sure you've seen the TANKS assemblies for this (although the pumps are vertical).

Then you could also use a tube-type fuel level sender from the top, next to the pump assembly.  I had a custom ISSPRO sender (height and ohm range) made earlier this year when I did the fuel system in my Spirit -- it was $65 delivered direct from them.

Please, folks, no hysterical "DON'T WELD THE TANK, IT WILL EXPLODE!" type of retorts to the suggestion of a weld-in recess.  Welding on used fuel tanks is done regularly and safely with a modicum of precautions.



Edited by Scrappy - Dec/07/2021 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2021 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

So far the cable hasn't been needed. Look at billd's Eagle build - http://theamcforum.com/forum/going-for-it-eagle-heart-transplant_topic8383_page45.html.

Thanks for that!! I did not find that thread in a search. 

I think I have to find an 80's sender assembly.  It didn't occur to me to see if Jeep tank senders were the same setup, and might have had EFI, hence the return line. 

I wanted to use all AN connectors for high pressure but that won't work with the tank-insert type pickup. 60 PSI ain't nothing. Hose barb is fine for the return line, though I know I could make hose barb work.


What I was thinking of, was a much longer hose, so that the pump would lay on the tank bottom, on its side, independent of the pickup assembly. THe magnet would just prevent it from sliding around. 
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2021 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by Scrappy Scrappy wrote:

Tom, are you dead set against welding in a recess for a top-hung pump assembly?  You'd also be able to get a fuel bucket in the tank through the same access hole.  I'm sure you've seen the TANKS assemblies for this (although the pumps are vertical).

Less work, less opportunity for introducing new stress loci at the welds, less chance of cracks and leaks, etc. Also less work. Also, more repeatable.

Not dead set against, still weighing my options.  The Walbro pump seems like a certainty; if I can wrestle it all in through the small hole, overall, life is much easier. 



Originally posted by Scrappy Scrappy wrote:

Please, folks, no hysterical "DON'T WELD THE TANK, IT WILL EXPLODE!"

I dunno dude, I watch TV!! Cars explode and lift straight up with a huge orange fireball every time! 


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2021 at 11:12pm
I'm trying to not rely on old knowledge about fuel plumbing and systems, always a problem doing things with new systems. Hemmings, surprisingly, has a nice clean rundown on fuel plumbing here https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2014/12/05/tech-101-fuel-line-hose-what-you-should-and-should-not-use . I'd already stumbled over the nylon line, it's far, far cheaper, and with the right fittings and tools, probably easier too. But it presents a lot of issues for non-OEM use, like terminating up at the firewall and switching to something more appropriate running to the top of the engine. Nylon fitting to NPT to AN or something. 


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2021 at 5:21am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

I'm trying to not rely on old knowledge about fuel plumbing and systems, always a problem doing things with new systems. Hemmings, surprisingly, has a nice clean rundown on fuel plumbing here https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2014/12/05/tech-101-fuel-line-hose-what-you-should-and-should-not-use . I'd already stumbled over the nylon line, it's far, far cheaper, and with the right fittings and tools, probably easier too. But it presents a lot of issues for non-OEM use, like terminating up at the firewall and switching to something more appropriate running to the top of the engine. Nylon fitting to NPT to AN or something. 
That is a good article. I've used high pressure hose with the liner for years and never had an issue with it. There are kits with fittings you can buy for the nylon but it's not as easy to work with in terms of trying bend it to go around something. There's a way to heat it and bend it but it's not easy to do. To tight of a bend and it will kink. And yes, trying to terminate it can get ugly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbwicz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2021 at 5:25am
  I ran push lock hose on my sniper setup on a previous car, as well as an oil accumulator.  NPT to AN adapter, then AN to push lock barb fitting worked well, and I could get the fittings with swivel nuts and with various tubes for angles to help in tight spaces.  Not the cheapest option (summit brand fittings were $6-$15 each, earls were a couple bucks more), but I was happy with it.  Very clean install with the black hose and black fittings I used.  The push lock parts I used are rated for 300 psi.  I'm planning on using this system again when I plumb my AMX.
  Just another option.

Mike

1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2021 at 6:51am
Your idea will work, but.... With the pump lying down you will need MORE fuel in the tank (or a deeper sump). The fuel pickup opening will be at least 1/2" off the floor of the tank if the opening is off center, more like a bit over an inch if it's centered. Standing up the fuel sock holds it maybe 1/8" or so off the floor. I just have barbed fittings on mine (as you saw in the photo) and have never had an issue.

I have an access panel on top of my tank. Had issues getting it sealed at first! Had to reinforce the edges with bar stock and use a rubberized cork gasket. Tack welded a bar just under the top panel edges (could rivet though... a couple rivets and maybe a relief hole in the top panel and bar so the top lays flat) and just drilled four pieces to lay on the edges of the cover. Tapped the lower pieces for small machine screws. Tried with just folding the edged over, but that wasn't stiff enough to seal even with a screw every inch. Got good at dropping the tank every few weeks until I got it sealed! My first try was the whole top of the tank screwed off, but couldn't get a fuel PROOF sealer. Might have worked had I used bar stock reinforcement around the top like I did with the access panel though. Welding the tank top and trying to seal a smaller opening was a lot more practical though.

The point of all that was that you could drop your tank and make a large enough access panel to insert a baffle for the pump. Could rivet/screw it in place or use those magnets -- from inside the tank. I'd still stand the pump up though.


Edited by farna - Dec/08/2021 at 6:53am
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