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Sniper EFI on 195.6 OHV

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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sniper EFI on 195.6 OHV
    Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 3:41pm
Man, a lot of money, let's hope it works out. Still needs another $200 of misc. junk. I foolishly did not add a bulkhead to the fuel tank for the return line, when I had it out.

Complicated carburetor with wires.

So far so good. I was certain that I'd have to make an adapter to move the throttle body over and deal with the throttle linkage, but on both counts, lucked out. It clears the valve cover by 3/8", and the throttle linkage will be easy, just lift the ball end on the lever, so adapting to the twist throttle will be easy. Same direction and degree of rotation, and it appears to be directly in line with the throttle rod. Could hardly be better.














Edited by tomj - Nov/16/2021 at 3:50pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 3:46pm
Keep us posted.  Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gtoman_us Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 4:24pm
Don’t ya just love it when a detailed plan comes together!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 6:22pm
This is pretty cool - new, meet old 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXRWB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 6:49pm
Looks great.I use Holley Projection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by gtoman_us gtoman_us wrote:

Don’t ya just love it when a detailed plan comes together!

Oh yeah! As far as I could tell from poking the intertubes, the Autolite base looked wider (bolt spacing), but it's the same. I'm glad to be wrong.  I was shocked it didn't interfere with the valve cover, every carb I've tried has, or comes close (YF, getting that inner nut on is a bear). The throttle linkage -- holey karap that was profound. I was expecting to fabricate some 19-way quadruple articulated mess -- all I have to do is make one funny bracket.

Not only, it's short -- so an air canister will fit. As tall as the '60 is under the hood, the YFA is too tall to allow a full canister, and the air intake is the noisiest thing under the hood.

The temperature sensor has a 3/8 NPT thread -- it's like a doorknob. "Cheby". But I found there exist spacers that fit under the thermostat housing and accomodate a chevy temp sensor. the chevy thermo housing bolt spacing seems to be the same as the Rambler (3.2", via tape measure) so I'll follow that route. Worse-case I fab one from scratch.

Tank return line, O2 sensor, a bunch of wiring, that's just work.

Fuel supply still undecided. It needs a 60 psi pump, the usual position is back by the tank. One possibility is to find/make a very small swirlpot, beer-can size or less, mount it up front somewhere, feed it from my in-place 4 psi electric, and have the 60 psi pump draw from the bottom of that. Tee both return lines to the tank. It may be that having the top of the swirl pot/return line at a very low but fluctuating pressure (at idle, 4 - 6 psi pump volume mostly unused) might increase high pressure by the same error -- so what, the Sniper has a regulator built in.

I already replaced the stock fuel line rear to front, it was rotten and filled with ancient gas, kept it 5/16". "Everyone says" you need 3/8". Nonsense. This engine is 130 hp, even rounding that up to 150 (NO WAY) that's only 12.5 gph flat-out-maximum. Carburetor rule of thumb is 5/16" works up to 300 hp. haha "300". My problem is I can't find a 60 psi pump small enough! 50 gph is about the smallest. lol.

Then I don't have a lot of complexity back behind the rear axle collecting mud and rocks. While I don't like the idea of a swirlpot filled with gasoline, it will be so small as to not be a problem. I can weld one up from tubing if necessary. Two pumps, but the little Carter pumps are very reliable, $40 new, smaller than a beer can and I carry a spare anyway. 

I could run a "modern" mechanical pump too, and eliminate the rear pump (except I already have it in place). Those things don't mind scavenging foamy gas from the bottom of an empty tank, that's what they do. Those are common as dirt. "New" ones (70s) put out closer to 10 psi, but given the swirlpot function there will be no pressure in the top and return line.

I've been planning on this for a while! lol




Edited by tomj - Nov/16/2021 at 9:53pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2021 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by AMXRWB AMXRWB wrote:

Looks great.I use Holley Projection.

It seems they got this stuff DOWN. It sounds like the old GM TBI "block learn" method, with some calculus for enrichment. That old GM TBI stuff, that level of sophistication, catches 90% of what we collectively need, a smart adaptable carburetor that self-tunes and altitude-adjusts. 

I had a GM 7747 type on the 232 in my '63 Classic, via a Howell Jeep kit. PITA to tune, all the Moates EEPROM boxes and cables, and laptop, and hours of pharting around, but wow was it nice! That car got solid 20 mpg, not bad for a 63 Classic 550 wagon with Flashomatic. 

I get a rough 20 mpg in the '60 wagon with a YFA that's giving me trouble, so I'm hoping for better. 
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2021 at 11:06am
I've used a removable fuel sender as a fuel return point. In my case I drilled a hole and soldered* a tube in. IF..., the tank has a removable filler neck that would be another place to work in a return line without having to drop the tank.

* I do need to state that the soldering process melted the nylon isolator for the sender wire. But as a testament to JB Weld I slathered it over the insulator on both sides and 13 years later it doesn't leak.

Surely this is the future of classic car drivability and reliability. It just comes at a price.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2021 at 9:34pm
Awesome!  I almost went this way on my 304 Javelin but in the end I got lazy and just had the Autolite 2100 rebuilt.  I didn't want to drop the tank again for the return line.  I also wonder what happens in 20 years when the electronics go south, but since I'm 67 now maybe I'm being a little optimistic, lol.  Keep us updated.  I'm betting it will run really nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/18/2021 at 12:02am
I'm thinking of techniques to safely drill a hole in the tank, along side the sender mounting hole. All I need is a quarter inch -- I have a 1/2" Greenlee. I think I know how to do it. If not I'll drop the tank, it's not that hard in the end.

Wittsend, I'll see if I can fit that bulkhead on the pickup assembly! I think not, but that would be easiest!

I found this component to use as tank bulkhead
I gave up on "bulkhead" various on Summit etc. None were suitable at all. I can assemble a steel tube to run return gas close to the tank wall.

carb pump to circulate fluid from tank to swirlpot, like 10 ounce size, big enough to get four bungs on. The low pressure stuff will be 5/16" Cu Ni bendable tube with hose ends. The high pressure will be PTFE stainless braid 6AN, under the hood. Slight complexity with the swirlpot but each system, is really easy. Its also really cheap to do it this way (RAMBLER MENTALITY).


CamJam, lol, yeah, I've done that the last couple cars! It's a big gulf between carb system and EFI. It's a lot of money to me. But I'm tired of battling carbs as they get worse and fewer, and my expectations rise, and especially for a daily driver, cars that constantly smell of fuel are just rude. My carbed roadster, that's different...

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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