TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Slightly blue exhaust !!!!!!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

Slightly blue exhaust !!!!!!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 1204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Slightly blue exhaust !!!!!!
    Posted: Feb/04/2023 at 8:17pm
"Other signs that your oil is leaking into your fuel and burning are misfiring spark plugs and rough vibrations while idling, but the blue smoke is an unmistakable, tell-tale sign of this issue."

This is from the internet, I do notice the exhaust has become slightly blue when it was a grey color before.

My spark plugs are black and wet, I've refreshed my memory and now know that too much fuel can cause your plugs to turn black and wet if there is too much fuel in the cylinders that they can't burn off.

But the paragraph uptop here I copy pasted also indicates what the problem could be with my engine behaving with the intermittent "cough" and a little shake ("rough vibrations")
 that I've been discussing with you guys.

Ok, is it a fact that too much gas from the carbs misadjusted float dumping too much gas into the cylinders would cause black exhaust and not blue-ish exhaust?

Everything I've read on the internet says blue-is exhaust is burning oil, from piston rings not working right, to damage to the cyl walls, or valve guides, seats being damaged.

Now with a rebuilt engine, what could be the cause of these diff types of damages? 


Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/04/2023 at 8:21pm
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 1204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/04/2023 at 8:52pm
Ring damage :
Something called radial ring flutter can damage rings, the causes of that are complicated and I don't fully understand it all, but I know what honing is and incorrect honing can ause ring flutter, too much combustion gases can cause it, among other things I read but don't understand.

Valve seat damage:
  • Poor material choice. ...
  • Poor seat design. ...
  • Poor soft seat carrier design. ...
  • Failure to understand the way materials behaves at pressure and temperature. ...
  • Permanent deformation. ...
  • Cold flow. ...
  • Excessive friction/torquE.

Damage to valve guides :
Excessive or not enough valve guide clearance. 




Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/04/2023 at 8:57pm
Back to Top
Trader View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: May/15/2018
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 6912
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/04/2023 at 9:33pm
Test first and diagnose later.
Do a compression/leak down test on each cylinder to see if there is a problem.
Do the spark plugs show signs of oil?
A bad PCV valve can cause oil burning.
Oil level too high can cause burning oil.
Poor engine assembly can cause burning oil.
Has this engine had enough miles on it to have the rings broken in?
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 1204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 1:54am
The plugs looked black and wet last time I checked them, so from what ive read that's signs of oil. 
but the engine was rebuilt, so it shouldn't be all worn out by now, I've never driven the car only had it revved up a little bit now and then but mostly sitting at idle.

The engine does not have a pcv valve
Oil level isn't too high
And the engine has had the before mentioned activity, so not many miles, only a few minutes at a time, and the longest it was running at idle was when I adjusted the valves which took maybe 25? Minutes? 

Other then the 20 minute break in last august, and what I've mentioned above, that's all the rings have had for getting broken in. 
I'll start planning on learning about how to do a compression test so I can do one and post the results, by the way, would a compression test be a good test or do I need to do a leak down test too? Or are they the same thing? 



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/05/2023 at 1:56am
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 16614
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 5:06am
Blue and grey smoke is oil.   I would be thinking that worn valve guides can cause oil burning. A compression test is subjective. >too many variables <  I dont put much into a compression test. If one cylinder is very low, then you may be on something. 
A leak down test is a better indicator on the condition of the engine..but Ive heard different opinions on what % on leakage is acceptable..so...

Are your plugs dry black?  Or oily black?
Back to Top
Trader View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: May/15/2018
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 6912
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 7:13am
Idle is the worst thing to do on a rebuilt engine.
Your burning oil likely because the cylinders have been glazed by idling.
2000 to 2500 RPM cam break in for 20 minutes and then engine hot and RPM varying between 1500 and 3500 for the next 500 to 1000 miles.

If correct to fix this there is tough love or tear it down and hone again. Be warned, tough love does not always work and you may be doing another rebuild!

Tough love is taking a 1/2 can of Seafoam and slowly pouring it down the carburetor just barely keeping the engine from stalling to strip oil from the cylinder walls and scrape the glaze. It will smoke like you started a forest fire.  Then drive the car like your steeling it - hard! Change the oil and do the 500 to 1000 mile 1500 to 3500 RPM break in. 

Did you know every new car for the last 20 years is taken right off the line. Started and all ECU checks are made and then they red line the motor, usually on a dyno, for 1 to 2 minutes before loading.


Edited by Trader - Feb/05/2023 at 7:17am
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 1204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 10:47am
Whoa whoa Whoa hang on a second are you serious?

"if correct to fix" means that is the best way, and the best way is to hone the cylinder walls again, after taking everything off the engine, valve train parts, rocker arm shaft ect, cylinder head, take off the head gasket, and get in there and rehone each cylinder, with out the pistons in there, so that means draining the oil, taking the oil pan off, taking the piston caps off, taking the pistons off, and rehoning each cylinder wall, then reassemble.

Why would it maybe not work, and why would I need to do another rebuild? 
What are the reasons I might have to do another rebuild after honeing the clys again? 
Have you had this happen to you before? 

And the second best way is to pour the sea foam (which kind of sea foam?) down the carb and let it burn into the cylinders




Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/05/2023 at 10:52am
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 1204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 11:04am

This is from the internet, I never knew about glazing or that idle was bad for a rebuilt engine, I never knew that.... 

"Problems can occur when the engine is lightly loaded or idled for long periods after the first startup. Never idle a brand new engine for an hour with no load.. 

Doing so can create a glazed cylinder wall.

Glazing is essentially combusted oil residue and carbon that remains on the cylinder wall and eventually builds up to a wet, shiny look on the cylinder wall. It almost looks like the cylinder wall has been painted with a clear paint job, Jones said. This finish occurs when the oil fills in all those valleys, creating a very smooth surface on the cylinder wall because no load was applied to peel the oil off of the wall.

This glazing makes the job of removing oil from the cylinder wall nearly impossible. The buildup will continue and eventually you will likely see a bluish haze coming from the exhaust."

I had my engine rebuilt, it cost almost $5000, I got it broken in with the 20 min break in about two months after I installed it, and then I fired up the engine and let it sit at idle and maybe reved it up a tiny bit here or there, but let it sit at idle for a few minutes, sometimes five minutes or more, every couple weeks for more then a year.

I had no idea I shouldn't be doing that.

Purple gremlin, the plugs last time I had them in hand looked oily and wet.

I guess I should still do a leak down test anyways.

If I had to rebuild the engine again like trad suggested, what parts should I replace? If it's all new and not seen much use at all, which parts could I re use? 



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/05/2023 at 11:27am
Back to Top
Trader View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: May/15/2018
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 6912
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 11:34am
For cylinder glazing,
Stated the "tough love" method may or may not work. I've had good results doing this but know of others that this has been a complete failure. If it doesn't work you have to re-hone and do a proper break-in.
Re-hone, and proper break-in will work if you go straight to this option.

You should be able to use everything on a re-honing except gaskets and new rings are advised.
The camshaft/lifters are broken in and can be reused. Each has to go back in the place it was removed and break-in lube should be used on reassembly. No need to re-do the camshaft break-in.


Edited by Trader - Feb/05/2023 at 11:39am
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2023 at 2:33pm
You will get fouled plugs and some blue smoke for the first 300-500 miles of driving. I drove a rebuilt engine around town just enough to know it was running good (after breaking in the cam!). Pulled and cleaned all the plugs (they were black and wet), then drove it on a short trip -- about 200 miles (four hours away to my parent's house at the time). I had to pull and clean the plugs shortly after I got there. It ran okay, but I knew they'd foul again. When I went back home (another ~200 miles/four hours) and checked they were fouled again. This time I threw them away and put new plugs in. Drove it a bit for the next 2-3 weeks (it was my daily driver, but only about five miles each way to work). Pulled the plugs just to check them. A little fouling, but in general ok, so a clean and put back in. A few weeks later I checked again and they were good, normal slightly tan color. I put at least 500 miles, probably closer to 600, before they were good -- and that was with electronic ignition and a hot spark (4.0L). So don't get worried about a bit of smoke and fouled plugs until you've put at least 500 miles on it. Not just little short trips, but some an hour or more. Not just putting around town either. You don't want to run a fresh engine at constant speeds or real high speeds for long periods, vary engine speed (rpm, not necessarily mph) during this first 500-1000 miles of driving. But it needs to be driven more or less like you intend to drive once it's broken in, and some longish trips help.
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.281 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or