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Shift-Command passing gear.

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FSJunkie View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr/16/2013 at 12:31pm

1965 Ambassador 327 with the console mounted floor shifted Shift Command Borg Warner M10.  Shift pattern is "1,2,D,N,R,P". It is TV control, no vacuum modulator. When the selector is in drive, it starts in 2nd and shifts to direct.  The only way to use 1st gear at any time is to manually select it.  This is all normal.

 
It downshifts when coming to a stop of course, but it does not seem to have a full throttle kickdown for passing.  Floor it at slow speeds in direct and it will not kickdown to any gear.  The owner's manual describes a full throttle kickdown for the standard column shift auto.
 
I always heard the TV cable controled M10 kicked down by a valve at the end of the TV cable in the trans, letting the TV cable control not only upshifts, but downshifts.  I've adjusted the cable and throttle linkage to no end and verified the cable AND push rod in the trans is all the way out at engine idle and bottomed fully at full throttle.  It upshifts really nice and where it needs to, but still no automatic kickdown.
 
The Shift Command was the sporty automatic option. The shifter is gated to be moved freely among all foreward gears by simply moving the lever, no locking mechanism to deal with. The owner's manual even encourages manually banging through the gears to get better performance. It was designed to be a cross between an automatic and a manual trans. Perhaps being the sporty option, they left out automatic kickdown and left this task to the driver?
 
----------------
I'm used to my Turbo Hydramatic 400 when I hit the detent switch. It'll even skip from 3rd to 1st if the conditions are right.
 
Does anyone with a floor shift M10 behind a Gen I V8 know if these things have automatic kickdown?
 


Edited by FSJunkie - Apr/16/2013 at 12:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocklandrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2013 at 12:57pm
Quote from the '64 Classic/Ambo TSM: "D" - Driving Range
Placing the selector in this position provides a second gear start. The transmission will upshift to high and downshift to second gear automatically. To obtain extra acceleration power when driving from about 35 MPH up to about 65 MPH depress the accelerator pedal completely beyond the added resistance, which actuates the downshift control from 3rd-to-2nd gear. The transmission will stay in second gear until a speed of 63 - 72 MPH is reached, or until the accelerator pedal is momentarily released; upshift to 3rd will occur automatically"

The way I read that is that there should be a "kick-down" feature. I hope this helps. Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69amxman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2013 at 10:28pm
Is there not a switch on the gas pedal wired to the tranny for swift downs like a m 11 or m 12 ? Just asking
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2013 at 10:57pm
Switch would be under the hood on the accelerator rod linkage if there is one on a '65.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2013 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

Switch would be under the hood on the accelerator rod linkage if there is one on a '65.
Electric kickdown solenoid is in the front left of the trans if it isn't a cable model.  The male end of a shovel connector is exposed.  On the throttle assembly, there's a paddle which depresses a kickdown (momentary) switch when you floor the pedal.  It is wired to the solenoid which activates the kickdown.  On some of the later models, the switch was moved to the accelerator pedal, after '67 but not sure of the year.  My '66 has the switch under the hood.

I have a NOS throttle assembly switch w/parts card, still bagged, that I purchased about 30 minutes before I found a used one.  I'd be willing to let it go for purchase price (which wasn't cheap, they're pretty rare).  I'd provide a copy of my receipt showing price (I think I got it from Blaser), and eat the shipping to me and to you as well.

In this pic you can see the hole the switch goes in, as well as the tab which depresses the switch, on the throttle assembly behind the valve cover to the right of the air cleaner. (Taken right after I got the car....much neater under the hood now Wink)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2013 at 3:42pm
My family purchased this vehicle new, and it never had anything like that. No floor switch, no throttle linkage switch. Just a TV cable. Not a single wire goes to the trans.
 
Time to study the tranny operation in the TSM. The Shift-Command has its own section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote george w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/09/2021 at 3:34pm
Time to break out the 65 TSM.
The second gear start in D "feature" must have been in it's last, or next to last, model year. I know for certain that the Shift Command (floor shift) in my 67 Ambassador convertible did start in first gear when in "D" and had the electric kickdown switch on the throttle linkage under the hood. My 67 DPL hardtop with Flash O Matic (column shift) works the same way but has a different quadrant arrangement, with a D2 range and a D1 range and L. You get first gear start in D1 range and second gear start in D2 range, but in either range you get automatic upshifts to top gear. With Shift Command you do not get automatic upshifts when in "2" range. Both transmissions are the BW-M11 but the valve bodies are different between the F-O-M and SC.

Studebaker used the BW trans in the Avanti and according to Ross Peterson, (401Matcoupe), the Stude also uses a second gear start.

One of my best friends parents bought a brand new 66 Ambassador 990 2 door hardtop. It was a 327 2 barrel with Flash O Matic. It too started out in first gear when in D1 range. Previously they had a 62 Rambler Classic 6 cylinder with the push button F-O-M. IIRC that too started out in first gear when the D1 button was used. Got a lot of seat time in both of those cars though I was not of driving age until 1965.

It seems to me that since your car uses a throttle cable that there must be a cable adjustment and possibly a "detent" at the very end of travel at full throttle. I'm sure the TSM will provide the answer.

The second gear start feature seems odd but early Ford O Matics did the same thing except if you floored the throttle from a dead stop it would force the FOM to start in first gear. Ford O Matics had a single D range and of course an L range. Ford added Cruise O Matic to their line in 1958. COM was the same as FOM except COM used a D1 and D2 range so you could have either first gear or second gear start the same as AMCs F-O-M.

You may have to lengthen (or shorten) the tv adjustment to get past the detent at full throttle. It seems unthinkable that AMC did not give you the ability to kick down to "passing gear" as we kids used to call it.

Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote george w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2021 at 5:57am
Any progress ??
Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.
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