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She's ALIVE!

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75Pacer15 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Sep/18/2021 at 11:29pm
I am very pleased to say that my 1975 Pacer is now among the living...almost.
This car has been retrofitted with a point-breaker ignition system, so I bought a new distributor cap meant for a '74 Gremlin, and it matched what the car has. I replaced the cap, wires, plugs, ballast resistor, fuel pump and starter solenoid.
The big things, however, were that I rebuilt the carburetor, which was ridiculously easy. There were barely any parts in the kit. The needle valve had a seized spring, so gas was overfilling the float bowl.
Additionally, I changed the oil, which had more gasoline in it than oil. I also replaced the fuel pump, just in case the diaphragm was leaking.
I proceeded to try and start it...and she cranked and cranked so easily, but gave no indication she was going to start...guess what? I watched a YouTube video about setting the points, because I figured that was the problem, and then I slapped myself in the forehead because I FORGOT TO PUT THE IGNITION ROTOR IN THE CAR. No wonder.
I put the rotor in, and she fired up...and ran with no problem at all on sixteen-year-old gas. Incredible. 
Currently, the issue I have is that I don't have a key for the car, so to make her run, I have to attach a wire from the ballast resistor to the battery. 
Additionally, the car is a column-shift automatic, so I have to detach the shift linkage and manually put the car into gear in the engine bay...and a friend helped me today and we learned that the car doesn't go into any gear at all.
The idle doesn't change...nothing happens whatsoever. It appears as though the transmission is out of fluid, and hopefully that's all it is. 
I have to say, though, it's pretty satisfying to get a car that has been sitting for sixteen years running. 


Edited by 75Pacer15 - Sep/19/2021 at 6:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 1BadJav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2021 at 2:20am
Congrats on the progress!
72 AMC Javelin SST - 401/727
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2021 at 12:57pm
Yes it is.  Congratulations.
Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2021 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by 75Pacer15 75Pacer15 wrote:

 I FORGOT TO PUT THE IGNITION ROTOR IN THE CAR. No wonder.
I put the rotor in, and she fired up...

Hmm, yes, rotors have been known to contribute to a well-running engine! lol Don't feel bad, no one is immune from the occasional dumb mistake. they're not really dumb, they're usually the easiest to fix and everyone makes them.

Originally posted by 75Pacer15 75Pacer15 wrote:

and ran with no problem at all on sixteen-year-old gas. 

This is a really, truly terrible, thing to do. You may have already done harm. Really, drain that gas, first thing, and don't use it. It WILL ruin your engine. Something in the way gas breaks down creates a sort of tar that condenses on valve stems and causes them to stick once the engine cools off. Don't run it in a lawnmower, or anything. It needs disposal.

Draining and disposing the tank of old gas is a large PITA. But a lot less so than a ruined engine.


Sorry to rain on your parade.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2021 at 4:06pm
I dont hear anyone adviseing you on replacing the fuel lines, so I'm not sure if enough bad gas could be in the fuel lines going from the tank to the engine/carb/fuel filter is present to cause a problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75Pacer15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2021 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

Originally posted by 75Pacer15 75Pacer15 wrote:

 I FORGOT TO PUT THE IGNITION ROTOR IN THE CAR. No wonder.
I put the rotor in, and she fired up...

Hmm, yes, rotors have been known to contribute to a well-running engine! lol Don't feel bad, no one is immune from the occasional dumb mistake. they're not really dumb, they're usually the easiest to fix and everyone makes them.

Originally posted by 75Pacer15 75Pacer15 wrote:

and ran with no problem at all on sixteen-year-old gas. 

This is a really, truly terrible, thing to do. You may have already done harm. Really, drain that gas, first thing, and don't use it. It WILL ruin your engine. Something in the way gas breaks down creates a sort of tar that condenses on valve stems and causes them to stick once the engine cools off. Don't run it in a lawnmower, or anything. It needs disposal.

Draining and disposing the tank of old gas is a large PITA. But a lot less so than a ruined engine.


Sorry to rain on your parade.


It's certainly not what I want to hear, but it's definitely better than learning it after the fact. I was seriously going to run the car every day just because I wanted to, I don't know, limber it up. I could always take the gas line from the fuel pump and stick it into a container of fresh gas. 
I suppose I should get one of those pumps you attach to a drill to siphon the fuel out of the tank. I'm not sure the plastic could survive the gasoline, but they're not expensive. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75Pacer15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2021 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by 1958 rambler super 1958 rambler super wrote:

I dont hear anyone adviseing you on replacing the fuel lines, so I'm not sure if enough bad gas could be in the fuel lines going from the tank to the engine/carb/fuel filter is present to cause a problem.

If the fuel gauge is accurate, I would guess I have about nine gallons of old gas in the tank, unfortunately. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2021 at 11:56pm
It's hard to know how thorough to be. Gasoline sitting for 16 years will turn very weird. There's moisture in the air, doesn't take much to cause rust and chemical transformations at the "water line". If it's really humid where you live it could be really bad in there.

Ideally you'd siphon the tank empty-ish, drop it, drain it, dispose of all the gas. CA has hazards drop off places, depending on the county. (I found out by trial that plastic 5 gallon "homer buckets" with snap-on lids stores gasoline "OK" for about 4 days before the covers start getting soft.) Then various means to clean out the tank.

With it out of the car you can see in side, sort of, with a bright light. I find my camera phone is better than bare eye, since it's wide angled.

Gasoline "today" is very different than gasoline when I was a kid, when it was far more stable, and essentially a distilled petroleum product. It is no longer just that. There's short-lived oxygenators and all sorts of unstable stuff.

It may sound extreme to take the tank out but you need to figure out what's in there before you continue. 


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2021 at 6:53am
I've had that issue. The "tar" gets in the valves guides and can cause the valves to stick. Then you lose pushrods. You can loosen them up after sticking and they will operate if driving a lot, but one or more will eventually stick again. If you're lucky a pushrod just comes out, if not it bends on the way out. Tom and I have both tried to clean and loosen without removing the head. I had a little luck with penetraing oil, but a few days later (and I was driving the car daily) a valve stuck again -- maybe after the penetrating oil was washed out? Head has to come off and valves pulled out so stems and guides can be cleaned with solvent. THEN you don't get more sticking valves as long as the old gas was drained and cleaned. I don't think just a gallon or two of old gas mixed with 1/2 tank or so of new gas -- preferably ethanol gas as the ethanol will clean things better -- will harm anything. A bigger question is how much old gas residue is inside the tank. If it's ever sat for a long period (over a year) then some gas has evaporated and left that residue in the tank. New gas (especially ethanol gas) will dissolve this residue and run it through the engine. It could be enough to cause the sticking valve issue. I'm sure other things get that tar on them too, like internal carb parts, but the sticking valves is the only issue that I noticed.
Frank Swygert
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75Pacer15 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75Pacer15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2021 at 10:56pm
Does it make any difference that before I realized the ignition rotor wasn't in place, I cranked it for a long time and sprayed a lot of starting fluid in the carb? Or does that burn off so quickly that it wouldn't mitigate tar and act as a solvent? Would it perhaps do some good to remove the rotor again, disconnect the fuel pump, and spray a bunch of starting fluid--or carb cleaner--into the carb and crank it for a little while, or would that simply damage the cylinder walls? I know these 258s aren't exactly fragile engines. 
I probably ran the engine for a total of 15 minutes on the bad gas--I mean, the engine did get up to operating temperature. 
I intend to put a new filter on it and stick the fuel line in a gas can and run it. Maybe put some Seafoam in the crankcase, or transmission fluid? 
At this point I'm a little afraid to start the car in case I've already gunked up the valve stems. 

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