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Ruined my Radiator and Fan today |
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troutwilly 
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Carriere, MS Status: Offline Points: 994 |
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 Topic: Ruined my Radiator and Fan todayPosted: Jan/26/2023 at 10:18pm |
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Before you get to wondering why this is in the Transmission/Drivetrain section, I'll tell you its because the last thing I did was mess with my driveline angles. So be warned and learn from my mistake. As you may know, I installed the full CF (front and rear) suspension, along with a new TKX. I have been having vibration issues that I thought might be related to the driveline angles. A while back I got the excessive angle (~ 6*, I just thought the shop got it right) out of the rear universal but still had vibration. Then thinking that maybe the rear universal was ruined (it was) by the excessive angle I took the drive shaft in and had the rear universal replaced and shaft re-balanced. Still a vibration. So the other night I went to checking the driveline angle again and all I did was add a 1/8" spacer under the trans mount to get both universals at 2.06* +/- .02*. I thought that was pretty good. (to be fair to the fan, I now have about 5/8" of spacing between the trans and crossmember) I had no idea the fan was so close to the upper tank frame on the radiator and didn't think to check it. I know I had plenty of room between the fan and radiator core. I just never noticed that top lip just above the core. Well, I started it up today and all was fine until I headed out on the highway, then all kinds of noise and antifreeze blowing everywhere. And this is what I have now:   See how the fan is tucked up under that lip! I'm a little bummed 'cause its my original radiator and fan, no longer to be a part of my car. So I'm gonna tear into it soon and this will force me to try again on the electric fans. Do you think its possible that the fan was getting old and flexing forward under higher rpms?
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Bill O.
70 AMX |
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Mopar_guy
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Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4825 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 5:14am |
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The radiator can be recored as long as the tanks are good. To bad that happened. I'm not a fan of stock fans like that because one of the reasons is I've seen the blades come off of them before. I only run electric with a variable speed controller. Most of the time you never hear them run.
Have you used the Spicer calculator for driveline angles? Driveline Operating Angle Calculator | Spicer Parts
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sweatlock
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Joined: Apr/28/2014 Location: Largo, FL Status: Offline Points: 3315 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 7:25am |
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I agree, as long as the top tank is sound the radiator can be saved by re-coring. I just had one done for $150 locally and I’m very pleased - they reported that it was 90% plugged, which would explain why my temp gauge kept rising at idle, lol. So it’s worth doing anyway, don’t despair.
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Ollie
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Joined: Sep/17/2012 Location: Brandon, MS Status: Offline Points: 2803 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 8:17am |
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I too, like Keith, am a big believer in electric fans. Keeps all the vibration off the engine and water pump, frees up a couple of horses too. If you use a thermostat controller, make sure to install it in the inlet hose to the engine not the outlet hose.
Having AMC Fun, Ollie
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1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"..SOLD
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"...SOLD 1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior" 1989 Jeep Comanche Pioneer, 4.0L, auto, 2wd |
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Buzzman72
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Joined: Sep/15/2009 Location: Southern IN Status: Offline Points: 2724 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 9:14am |
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I'm just trying to figure out that Hugh Jazz black bracket across the front of the engine. None of MY AMCs ever had that. Is that for the serpentine belt system?
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Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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BU1
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Joined: Aug/11/2016 Location: MN Status: Online Points: 2009 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 9:27am |
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Could a shorter fan spacer have been used? Picture angles don't show it well, but it almost appears that the fan was too far into the shroud.
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AMO #2726
#1 1968 AMX Rally Green 343 Z code 4spd since 1975 #02642 #2 1968 AMX Rally Green 290 N code 4spd since 2019 #02959 |
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1958 rambler super
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Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 10:06am |
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Did this happen to your green car trout willy?
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CamJam
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Joined: Jan/04/2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 6546 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 11:45am |
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Well, that sucks. I've spent a lot of time chasing driveline vibrations in the past so can feel your pain. I almost did this to my Opel GT once, but fortunately the fan only hit the shroud and not the radiator.
Dumb question perhaps, but have you tried flipping your driveline 180 degrees? Even if it doesn't fix the problem, whether it gets better or worse can give you some clues as to what's going on. I also find the Spicer driveline calculator mentioned previously to be very useful. There's some good discussion about pinion angles on this page from a previous thread in 2018. AMC used what's known as a "broken back" arrangement, as did a few other makes like Studebaker and Land Rover, but it's most commonly found on heavy trucks. It's always seemed strange to me that they varied from what most other manufacturers were doing at the time. |
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'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST '69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD  |
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 12:17pm |
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I definitely had an aftermarket flex fan tip FORWARD. It's digging into the air and same thing, tips dug in just like yours, but at the bottom.
Totally different situation, plastic fan, aftermarket aluminum rad, 60 American, but same exact failure. Revved it up after 15 minutes of driving. Not a pleasant sound, and a windshield covered in sticky green. I fixed the spacing, replaced the radiator, then observed carefully -- yeah it flexed forward, very visible once I looked. Bummer man you lost your original radiator. (If you have to run a mechanical, the Flex-o-lite nylon fans are great -- lots of low-speed air, and so light they don't wobble the pump bearing to death.) |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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troutwilly
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Carriere, MS Status: Offline Points: 994 |
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Posted: Jan/27/2023 at 2:59pm |
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Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Let me try to answer/comment in order: Mopar_guy; Yes, I use the Spicer calculator. Wonderful tool. As for the variable speed controller, can you suggest one and will one work on the Concours/Mystique setup? (I have one but car was doing fine on mechanical so I put it on the back burner.) sweatlock; This radiator has been re-cored once and I may consider it again. But IIRC, it cost about $400, 15 years ago. Ollie; Makes sense because I had originally planned on a Derale setup and their sensor attaches to the bottom of the radiator. Buzzman72; That cross piece is the main brace of the March serpentine system, in black. BU1; I ran into a spacing problem with the March system. I couldn't use the Derale setup because it required 4" of clearance. I measured, I had 3" at best, and that was obtained by removing the fancy dress-up pulley covers of the March system. I also used an extended fan spacer to get the stock flex fan to clear the pulleys which gave me about 3/16" clearance on the A/C pulley when not running. But I could still get my hand in between the fan and the radiator core. I just never noticed the upper tank lip. 58 Rambler Super; Yes. CamJam; If by "flipping the driveline 180*" you mean taking measurements on both sides of the yokes and drive shaft, then yes, I do that, and average the measurements/angles. tomj; Thanks, will check out the Flex-a-Lite. The sequence of events went like this: started car - all fine; backed out of garage - all fine; putz up driveway onto street - all fine; head up street easy during warm up, get to 3rd gear, approaching stop so down to 2nd and hear rattling, like nuts and bolts dropping into a tin can, but it stops and seems fine; wait to pullout on highway - all fine; pull out onto highway, get to 2nd and all heck breaks loose; pull over in parking lot and assess damage; tow car home. So thanks again for all the replies and suggestions. One thing I've been knowing since I started running the serpentine system is that they are not intended to be used with mechanical fans. There's just not enough belt contact with the water pump pulley and mine would squeel quite often when revved. So this has me leaning towards electric. And I'll ask again, can you use a variable speed controller on the Concours/Mystique fans? I'll be re-reading the threads on that.
Edited by troutwilly - Jan/27/2023 at 3:02pm |
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Bill O.
70 AMX |
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