Removing pollution equipment

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BOBB

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Topic: Removing pollution equipment
Posted: May/11/2023 at 12:06pm

I have a 1977 Pacer and I'm pretty sure that I have a vacuum leak somewhere under the hood. The problem being that there is so much pollution equipment there that there is really no way to find the leak because of the fact that that equipment takes up so much room that you can't get to all those stupid hoses to check the ends. What with the air pump, the air condition compressor, the power steering pump, the power brakes and a whole bunch of other garbage there is no room to drop a golf ball through to the ground. Now don't tell me to use a vacuum gauge because I already know how to do that. What I need is someone who knows how, to help me with the knowledge that I need, to give me some advice on the best way to get rid of all that crap that the government demanded that they put on in order to comply with the pollution laws back then. I live in New Mexico and we still have some freedoms here. There is no yearly auto inspections here and the pollution stuff, especially on older cars, is not necessary. I know that it can be done because back in the 70s when I used to do a lot of auto repair work for a living, I used to do it on cars just like this. But that was so far back that I've forgotten as much as I knew and am asking for help with this project. I'm sure that there are a lot of old farts like myself out there that know how to do this. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Posted: May/11/2023 at 1:53pm

Welcome, Bob!

Before we tell you how to remove everything your engine might not 'need' these days, tell us more about the suspected leak!

-What leads you to believe there's a vacuum leak? Is the engine running poorly? Can you hear a hissing sound?

-Yes, a Pacer engine compartment is not a fun place for an old fart to be, but many of the basic connections are not that hard to reach and to check.

-Your car with have the Prestolite distributor. Those vacuum advances are notorious for failing-creating a small leak, and cutting down on performance.

-Check the hose and fitting to the power brake booster.

-Check the hose to the EGR valve.

-Check the hose from carb to distributor, for vacuum advance

-I think there's also a little thermostatic hose to the underside of the air cleaner.

-Check the PCV hose and grommet (top of valve cover...hidden a bit). That's where you can get a big leak.

All these are do-able without tearing things out and opening another can of worms.

You can also spray some brake cleaner around the intake manifold with the engine running to see if there's a leak there. If the engine picks up speed, bingo!

Good luck! (from another old fart)

74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384
70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)

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Posted: May/11/2023 at 6:04pm

The way the EPA is busting people on the internet, Facebook Marketplace, and YouTube for removing emission equipment I am not sure I would post a question like this on a publicly viewed forum.

I am with you on the removal. I just think I would word the question differently. More like, " My friend Joe has" LOL

Tom

Molnar Technologies Full Service Dealer - Crankshafts & Connecting Rods

1969 AMC Rambler Rouge Race Car
1974 AMC Hornet Hatchback, Wally Booth Outlaw Nostalgic Pro Stock Race Car Project

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Posted: May/11/2023 at 7:09pm

Add to this, anything removed, keep as rules change all the time.

Also many new brake cleaners are non flammable, so won't help testing. I use a small propane tip on the torch or in tight spaces, a lighter, of course not lit. Fire extinguisher always near by.

At the age of the vehicle, replacing one hose at a time would be an option if they have never been replaced. The hoses do not last forever.

I'd remove the EGR valve to test it and clean the seat area. Have had many an EGR valve diaphragm leaks or valves completely seized.

If going the planned route, just find a TSM from 1969 for the 232 or better yet an older donor for the parts that bolt on and are correct except the YOM.

Not only will it look correct, but if you install a new high flow catalytic converter, it will perform better and most likely pass the sniff test if ever required.

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Posted: May/11/2023 at 8:06pm

Even without emissions (and I too don't advise removing it), it's good practice to inspect and replace all your vacuum lines when bringing a car back into service. The Pacer especially is an all-vacuum regulated secondary air and spark control system. All sorts of chaos will ensue from one split hose.

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Posted: May/11/2023 at 9:07pm

PROSTOCKTOM wrote:

The way the EPA is busting people on the internet, Facebook Marketplace, and YouTube for removing emission equipment I am not sure I would post a question like this on a publicly viewed forum.

I am with you on the removal. I just think I would word the question differently. More like, " My friend Joe has" LOL

Tom

With all due respect, the EPA does not bust people for removing emissions equipment from 40-50 year old cars. (California's CARB board might take issue with it!)

It does not approve of manufacturers (like VW's dieselgate), or aftermarket suppliers, or professional mechanics from disabling or removing such equipment on modern vehicles. That's got something to do with being 'a nation of laws', which I would like to think we are.

74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384
70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)

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Posted: May/12/2023 at 12:48am

With all due respect, the EPA does not bust people for removing emissions equipment from 40-50 year old cars.

It feels like cheating.
It's like saying a YJ is okay to de-smog because you are only going to use it in exempted off-road only situations, but you don't and the odds are low enough you won't get a random inspection, so you do road drive it anyways.
It also takes away from the completeness of the vehicle, should that be your thing.

BOBB

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Posted: May/12/2023 at 12:09pm

ramblinrev,

Thank you so much for your reply to my post. I will answer those of your questions that I can as of right now.

I don't get to work on it every day, and when I do get to work on it, I am limited by various things, so my answers may be slow in coming. Please hang in there, I will try to answer them all.

Let me give you some background first. It is a really terrific survivor car from the 70s.

I got a great deal on it from an older gentleman who had just purchased it from out of state not very long ago and didn't know what a collectable that he had bought.

The way that I read this car is that someone had bought it many years ago, with 26,000 miles on it, and garaged it with the intention of restoring it. I'm thinking that maybe he died and the wife sold it not knowing it's value.

It is quite obvious that it has spent the majority of its life in a garage.

The original paint has hardly faded at all and looks like it will buff right out should I decide to do so.

The decorative band that goes across the roof shows some wear and is definitly original.

Only a couple small dents that are really nothing to be concerned about even fixing.

The carpets look like new yet except for the driver's side where you would expect some wear. The pedals show very little wear.

The bumper chrome still looks great except for some very minor surface pitting that can probably be polished out.

The seats have the factory Navaho pattern and are absolutely gorgeous.

I'm in the process of making clear plastic seat covers for them right now. I spent some time years ago in an upholstery shop.

Somebody installed a glasspack muffler. There is some very slight rot just above the rear license plate. Never seen something like that before.

It came with a brand-new radiator and hoses. Wrong radiator but, after doing a small number of modifications underneath to make the taller radiator fit, It looks and acts right.

When I got it it had a startup knock that went away as soon as it started to run.

That turned out to be the fact that, with the engine stuffed so far back under the cowl, someone didn't seat the plug wire to the #6 plug and that plug wasn't firing at all. It looked like new when I took it out while the other five were showing some carbon.

Runs good now but not as well as I require. I'm not trying to restore it to show quality. I just want to use it for its original purpose as an everyday driver. I want it reliable to do what any car should be able to do, and that's to get me back and forth to anywhere that I want to go. (And to get a thumbs up from everybody that sees it going down the road)

Now to answer some of your questions:

What leads me to suspect a vacuum leak is that most of the hoses seem to be original and 46 years old.

One of them is plugged off with a bolt and I can't find the other end of it. I don't hear any hissing sounds.

A few of them are bulged at the ends as would be expected by their age. A couple of them are of an odd color.

The distributor advance hose is going to the carburetor instead of to a little standalone manifold connected to the pollution system that, according to my information, it should be going.

With all the garbage in the way, I can't trace most of the hoses so I don't know their condition or where they are going.

Also, the fact is that I don't understand how and why this pollution system functions and I want to get rid of it.

I bought this car because it should be one that I can work on myself, like I used to do, without having to buy ten thousand dollars worth of analytical machines.

I've set the timing at 9 degrees btdc. The fender sticker says this car was meant for low altitude use. I am at 4350 ft altitude which may be slightly above that limit. My info tells me that the low altitude setting is 8 and high altitude is 10. I've adjusted the carb.

I haven't got around to using the vacuum tester on everything yet. I will soon. My largest concern when it comes to working on this car is the fact that, here in the high desert country of New Mexico, in the hot weather at this time of the year, It gets quite hot quite early and leaves me with a short window of time to work on it. I have no garage and shade only in the afternoon to do anything. (Great place to own a fishbowl car, but it does have AC, don't know if it works yet) I plan to tint, at least the rear side windows and the hatchback. Maybe even the door windows and windshield. We will see. No place here in town does that, but I am teaching myself by way of the internet.

It is not running rough but not really smooth either. I think that I may have to replace the exhaust donut too.

Yes, I have the Prestolite distributor. The parts house gave me the wrong cap first. How do I go about checking that distributor for leaks. I don't really suspect it, but I will have to check it to be sure.

I've bought some brake cleaner and will spray for leaks as soon as I can.

I will check the hose and fitting to the power brake booster.

I will check the hose to the EGR valve. (If I can ever find it)

I will check the hose from carb to distributor, for vacuum advance

I will look for a little thermostatic hose to the underside of the air cleaner. (Don't really understand that item)

I will check the PCV hose and grommet. I didn't suspect that of being a vacuum leak problem because it only goes from the valve cover to the air cleaner and doesn't have much, in my way of thinking, to do with engine vacuum leaking.

Now, the carburetor base and intake manifold gasket, well I should check that of course. And I will.

My main concern, right now, is to simplify this engine bay so that I can see and put my hands on everything so that I can work on it, and that means getting rid of the whole pollution system if I can. I might even get rid of the air conditioning compressor if the AC doesn't work.

Any other questions or advice as to how to remove the pollution crap, let me know and I'll be happy to communicate with you.

BOB

By the way, Any ideas on how to preserve the paint from sun fading without buffing it out? I don't really want it shiny like a buffing would do. I want to keep the look that it has right now. I'd send some pictures but I'm not sure how to do it.

Remember, life is too short to not laugh and smile every chance you get.

nickleone

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