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Manifold Comparison

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Category: Competition
Forum Name: Drag Racing
Forum Description: Your latest numbers, events you attended and more
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112933
Printed Date: Mar/29/2024 at 12:03am
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Topic: Manifold Comparison
Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Subject: Manifold Comparison
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 5:26pm
I was wondering if anyone has done a detailed comparison between an Indy (SR Type) manifold and a HLR manifold.

I have both and run the Indy on my Spirit but also have an HLR on the shelf and have been thinking about doing a detailed comparison of the 2. Possible even a swap to compare numbers.

If anyone has ever done it before then I am asking for your results in the comparison so I can be lazier....lol

runner length ? By eyeball the runner length looks longer on the HLR

plenum size ? The HLR looks quite a bit taller. I would think that the plenum area is larger?

total cc's of the entire manifold ?

Anybody's input so I don't waste my time and try a swap for nothing.

437 cubic inch 3.9x4.225
Wide ported SR heads T&D offset shafts 
302cfm at .500
342cfm at .750
@.050 275/286
shift 7500
9.0's -1/4 @149 5.70's 1/8@121
1.26 60"
8" Treemaster/Turbo 400 and brake




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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders



Replies:
Posted By: PROSTOCKTOM
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 6:23pm
What's that car weigh Rob?  I am going out a limb here and guess that so few people have a HLR intake that you're going to have to do the trial and error yourself. Let me get some popcorn and a Coke ready. I'll be waiting on the sidelines. Tongue

Tom


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Molnar Technologies Full Service Dealer - Crankshafts & Connecting Rods

1969 AMC Rambler Rouge Race Car
1974 AMC Hornet Hatchback, Wally Booth Outlaw Nostalgic Pro Stock Race Car Project


Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 7:31pm
HLR High rise intake volume:
 16.5 cups or 3.9 liters


https://theamcforum.com/forum/measured-plenum-volumes-of-all-amc-intakes_topic96180_page1.html" rel="nofollow - https://theamcforum.com/forum/measured-plenum-volumes-of-all-amc-intakes_topic96180_page1.html


^done with cups of water and duct tape,
so not exactly lab quality results,
 but I measured 3.9L of volume out of a HLR intake a few years ago.




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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords


Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 7:35pm
All results were:


Dual Planes


Edelbrock SP2P (66-69 version)                     1.5 Liters  (6.4 cups)


Edelbrock Performer #2131                          2.5 Liters (10.5 cups)


Performer RPM #7581 Air Gap                        2.6 Liters (11 cups)

 
Edelbrock R4B 1970+                                          4.0 Liters (17 cups)





Single planes:


Edelbrock Torker #3930                                   2.72 Liters (11.5 cups)


Offy Dual Quad with 1/2" spacers                           3.8 Liters (16 cups)


HLR High rise intake (ported)                                      3.9 Liters (16.5 cups)


Edelbrock UR-18 with UR-11 Dominator top       5.32 Liters (22.5 cups)


Edelbrock UR-18 with Weiand 1911 top             5.55 Liters (23.5 cups)


Edelbrock (original) STR-11 70' up Crossram     9.32 Liters (39 cups!)


Since the last time I measured I've gotten one of the new Edelbrock single planes,
 but haven't measured it.

I never had an Indy to measure,
 but if you ever measure yours maybe you can add it to that thread Smile


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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords


Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 8:14pm
i have an extra Indy (SR style) on the shelf as well as the HLR, I can get the total volume figure fairly easily.

Some plastic, silicone, and water....that will be easy to get a figure on !


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 8:21pm
2650 with my fat rump


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Oct/30/2021 at 10:54am
My favorite manifold is the Dominator Torker by Barry Allen.
I am anxious to try the edelbrock original version of the HLR manifold. It has a 1" shallower plenum.
The Indy has the same depth plenum as the HLR.
 


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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Oct/30/2021 at 10:58am


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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Oct/30/2021 at 11:00am
I copied the Barry Torker. I used a 2" hougan bit to cut the cloverleaves. then went back in with a mill to cut the remaining material. Then I welded the homemade flange on and did the finish work with a die grinder.
I'm going to try it next year on my edelbrock head combo pulling the victor manifold off.


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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Oct/30/2021 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Hurst390 Hurst390 wrote:

I copied the Barry Torker. I used a 2" hougan bit to cut the cloverleaves. then went back in with a mill to cut the remaining material. Then I welded the homemade flange on and did the finish work with a die grinder.
I'm going to try it next year on my edelbrock head combo pulling the victor manifold off.


Nice job!

If the Dominator/Torker outperforms than the Victor in 2022......


would you modify the Victor to take a 4500 flange and try that in 2023? SmileLOL


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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords


Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Oct/31/2021 at 3:35pm
Great information Jim.....that you for posting it !!!!!!!

I know you have embraced the idea of The Dominator/Torker for a long time....... and for a smaller volume head I think you are correct. I don't even think that a torker could be match ported to my SR heads without adding a lot of weld on the ouside of the torker s runners ?

My gut tells me it is not enough intake manifold to feed a 260 cc intake runner SR head @7500 rpm ??? Not enough runner/plenum volume is my gut instinct but I have NO proof to back up that assumption!

But....I have been wrong many times......and I want to learn more than I know now.

Please continue to educate me !

Thanks,
Rob


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: Repsolroger
Date Posted: Feb/01/2022 at 5:56pm
What's HLR....and SR heads....no clue what the abbreviations mean



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1969 sst javelin restomod


Posted By: Sonic Silver
Date Posted: Feb/01/2022 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Repsolroger Repsolroger wrote:

What's HLR....and SR heads....no clue what the abbreviations mean

Someone can correct me on this first part. I think S/R is a street replacement head from World Products. I know that HLR stands for Herman Lewis Racing. Herman was an AMX drag racer who fabricated his own intake. Herman died a few years ago, and he grew up about 25 miles from me in Erwin, TN, and later moved to West Virginia. He built an engine for me about 30 years ago.


Posted By: acm
Date Posted: Feb/01/2022 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by Repsolroger Repsolroger wrote:

What's HLR....and SR heads....no clue what the abbreviations mean



SR's are the dogleg Indy heads.


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acm


Posted By: jblue1555
Date Posted: Feb/02/2022 at 7:54am
Check the engine masters intake test and the Wilson spacer results



Posted By: Repsolroger
Date Posted: Feb/02/2022 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by acm acm wrote:

Originally posted by Repsolroger Repsolroger wrote:

What's HLR....and SR heads....no clue what the abbreviations mean



SR's are the dogleg Indy heads.
   well no wonder that makes perfect sense :-)  my bad LOL 


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1969 sst javelin restomod


Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Feb/02/2022 at 2:26pm
The Indy SR heads keep the dogleg style exhaust port..... good for street ie: no custom headers....but are what I would consider a medium cubic inch capable race level head with work. There is enough meat in their cores to get them to get 260cc intake port runners which is a very good combination for a 401 or 426 and 434 stroker in a high horsepower street trim or all out race engine at that cubic inch level.

They are flow limited mostly by the size of the valves. There is no valve spacing to go past a 2.125/1.65 valves so additional port volume past 260 cc is counter intuitive. To get the full 260cc volume you must move the pushrods over and use offset rocker arms as well as raise the port height considerably.

If you may ever want to push past the 750 HP level NA go with the larger Indy -1 race head right off the bat.


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: garland performce
Date Posted: Feb/03/2022 at 7:08pm
What flow #s did you get from your S/R heads



Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Feb/04/2022 at 1:05pm
I don't have my flow sheets at work with me.

Off the top of my head Intake at .500 valve lift 305 cfm,  at .750 lift 345 cfm,  .800 lift about 350cfm and stagnant or losing a after that. The exhaust generally in the 245 range. A litle bit more than 2/3 intake of intake flow.

The cfm numbers probably are not as important as having the correct port volume for the cubic inches you are running.

But it is a lot of work. Buy a set of the -1 heads with either the 260cc or 300cc port volume depending on the cubic inch you are running. I wish I would have I could have saved money. At the time I bought the SR's back in 2004 I thought I was just building a hot street car not an race car.


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: hacksaw1971
Date Posted: Jun/27/2022 at 5:48am
im a big tunnel ram guy  always have been.   i have a chance to get a Edelbrock UR-18. bit more money than i was hoping but after looking into it ... it kinda is a good price and will go well with the heads i got. so if its still around after the S/C is on the road (soon) il be going that way. cpllecting parts as i go in the hopes of making a bath tub nash go 9's with all AMC power.  a tunnel ram will help. 

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its the little things that make the biggest difference


Posted By: DragRacingSpirit
Date Posted: Jul/30/2022 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Hurst390 Hurst390 wrote:

I copied the Barry Torker. I used a 2" hougan bit to cut the cloverleaves. then went back in with a mill to cut the remaining material. Then I welded the homemade flange on and did the finish work with a die grinder.
I'm going to try it next year on my edelbrock head combo pulling the victor manifold off.


Did you ever get around to trying that swap ?


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Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Aug/06/2022 at 7:38am
Rob-No, I have made a gear change and will see what that does in Cordova. I probably wont make the manifold swap unless I can get the 4 speed back in the car. I cant really stand to run it with the auto. 

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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal



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