No contact on fuse panel
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Electrical - non engine
Forum Description: Charging systems, lights, non-ignition system, it goes here.
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111001
Printed Date: Apr/19/2024 at 4:04am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: No contact on fuse panel
Posted By: mbwicz
Subject: No contact on fuse panel
Date Posted: Jun/10/2021 at 7:30pm
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I'm going thru parts for my 70 AMX, and figured I should check my fuse panel. Using the diagram in the TSM, I found a circuit with (at best) high resistance between the fuse contact and spade terminal. If I checked things 10 times, one time I would get 250-300 ohms, the other 9 I would get open. The fuse holder is tight to the circuit board and there doesn't appear to be a break or any damage on the spade terminal side. Am I correct in assuming that I should just look for another fuse panel? Its the end terminal and corner fuse holder (I tried to highlight the connection). All other circuits tested OK for this panel. Thanks for any advice, Mike  ------------- 1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money. |
Replies:
Posted By: madams
Date Posted: Jun/10/2021 at 7:43pm
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The fuse holders look pretty corroded (dirty really). Clean it up really good and severely scratch the fuse holder with your meter lead to ensure your are touching bare copper. One sold recently on ebay for $30. There is one for sale on ebay (not mine, no idea of the condition).
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Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Jun/10/2021 at 8:16pm
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Or just put in something a little more modern if this is not a restoration. These come in various number of fuses and there is little chance of accidental contact with any other fuse: https://www.opentip.com/Bussmann-15600-12-21-ATC-fuse-panel-long-base-12-positions-p-11304203.html?ats=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8IaGBhCHARIsAGIRRYoDcj3NuqUVy_eIvVNsSL6CnYB1OIqw-Bzq2nqbog4Rp1EhMjpfqSoaAojMEALw_wcB" rel="nofollow - https://www.opentip.com/Bussmann-15600-12-21-ATC-fuse-panel-long-base-12-positions-p-11304203.html?ats=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8IaGBhCHARIsAGIRRYoDcj3NuqUVy_eIvVNsSL6CnYB1OIqw-Bzq2nqbog4Rp1EhMjpfqSoaAojMEALw_wcB There are many suppliers of these and they can be mounted in the original position with no need to alter the wiring harness. Add a couple of standard relays near by and you have full battery power to your headlights. Just another option.
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jun/11/2021 at 12:00am
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It's an inherently crappy part. Badly made when new. They are nothing but trouble. I had my best luck by soaking it in phosphoric acid ("rust remover/concrete prep") for half an hours, scrubbing it, washing in soapy water and drying it in the sun, then gently/carefully striking the rivets a wee bit tighter. If it's badly cooked, the phosphor-bronze spring clips get pitted and lose their spring, and then they get hot in normal operation. heat from current flow causes a positive feedback loop, in that heat will increase corrosion which increases resistance which increases heat which... etc I once wired a car from scratch, with rolls of wire, which was well within my skill set. What a huge PITA and it cost more than simply buying an aftermarket wiring harness, and didn't come out as good. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Jun/11/2021 at 2:22pm
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My first thought would be to tighten the rivets as tomj suggested. Replacing a 50 year old fuse block with another 50 year old fuse block may not yield the results you hoped for. Wasn't someone making re-pops of these? Making a form-fit-function replacement wouldn't be all that difficult. Making it compatible with blade fuses would be a plus.
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Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Jun/11/2021 at 3:33pm
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There's and awful lot of oxidation on that panel.I suggest following tomj's advice and to clean it chemically, rinse and dry it out and make sure at the terminals are tight. A loose rivet could be replaced with a short brass screw and nut. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: mbwicz
Date Posted: Jun/11/2021 at 5:01pm
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I did a real good cleaning on it, as suggested. I didn’t find any loose rivets, but did re-strike the faulty circuit rivet again. It is consistently working now. Thanks for the tips. Mike ------------- 1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money. |
Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Jun/12/2021 at 8:26am
I absolutely agree. I am a dyed in the wool purist. BUT, if the OEM part was a POS, then I have no qualms about replacing it with something better. I would find no comfort in telling myself I have a concours correct car while I'm waiting for the wrecker to tow me home. ------------- Roger Gazur 1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
Trader wrote:Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/15/2021 at 10:11am
I take out the rivets, clean all of the metal parts, plate the connectors, etc. and re-rivet them with my rivet setting tools and new rivets so in a sense, they are restored. Since things are re-plated, they SHOULD in theory last as long as they did originally (ok, I know that may not mean 60 years LOL) Exactly right on the resistance/heat/oxidation=more resistance=more heat thing. Nailed it. I've been trying to grab old fuse panels when I can find them to use for parts or even restore if good enough. -------------  http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jun/15/2021 at 10:24pm
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Oooh, if you can de/re-rivet, that's the best fix of all. I'm sure with the care you put in it will be far better assembled than the rapid-fire assembly line. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/15/2021 at 10:54pm
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I do it with blower motors, wiper motors, the park switches, etc. when I pull things apart to plate or powder coat. I do brass or steel rivets, whichever is correct for the application. This was a NOS park switch that had a lot of finish blemishes, started to rust in the box. I took it apart, removed rivets, plated it and put it back together with new rivets.   ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 8:33am
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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 11:46am
Yes, I overall agree, but.............. your electric wipers are grounded this way ;-) -> Unlike others, when I restore these I remove the ground strap, clean and plate the mounting plate, clean the ground, and use a new rivet with the rivet setting tools in my arbor press and check that the strap is tight. I've had others (restored motors) sent to me for repairs where the ground strap was left on and the plate simple blasted, cleaned and plated, not removing that strap. Very bad.  It depends on whether a person is so OCD that solder would drive them nuts, or they realize that only THEY would even know it's there - but they'd still have a factory correct part other than the solder. These are generally pretty low current, and have lasted in many cases well over 50 years without notable issues. But any person dealing with this part should consider what you said and decide from there. I know well you are talking from an ideal standpoint with zero loss so this isn't an "argument" about what's truly ideal (electrically) ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 11:51am
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To me, the blasted fuse holder clamps are more an issue than a good rivet. Not all rivets are created, or I should say stamped equal. If one does not care about a rivet, a screw and nut will work, more clamping force and surface area. ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 1:07pm
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Be careful getting into force vs. area, etc. - the same force applied over a smaller area is better than that force applied over a larger area. It comes down to - do you want an elephant to step on your toe, or a lady in 1/2" heels stepping on your toe. You'd have to greatly increase the force of the fastener to get the effect when spread over a larger area - which of course a machine screw and nut could do if you really tightened it. Anyway, it's ironic in a way that the one and ONLY fuse panel I've ever had issues with, of all of the cars I've owned, the old trucks, you name it, the only one that gave me fuse panel blues was a more modern version AMC used in the 80s with the blade fuses - those color coded plastic fuses. And guess where the issue was - yeah, some where the fuses plugged into the panel, but that part is fairly easy to fix..... it was at the back where the wires connected. It had gotten wet from a windshield leak years before I got it and the wire connections at the back were going bad. The fuse panel from a totally rotted out hulk of SX4 that the steering gear LITERALLY FELL OFF OF the frame, you couldn't sit in the seats or you'd go clear through the floor and I remove seat belts by simply pulling hard.......... the fuse panel was mint. No issues at all, not a bit. So I took the dash harness from that car - different year of course, different switch types and so on, merged it with the good from my harness, added the additional accessory connections mine had and needed that the 81 did not and made a good fuse panel match mine in options and had a really good wiring harness. Swapping out fuse panels made all electrical gremlins go away. No more flickering lights, no more wipers shutting down in a storm, everything finally worked.   ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 1:33pm
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Ah, now water damage thats another issue all together. Reminds me of all the cars from Katrina being sold, within a year... Bam! Electrical issues. I think I worded my explanation wrongly about bigger surface area. I meant some fasteners may break down around the hole if trying to tighten with small shoulders on the head. Having a wider head, if area permits, allows the foot print to disperse the load more evenly where it is less prone to fracture or break away. Not meaning to toque down til you see a flex or indentation. ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 2:54pm
Not all fuse panels have been so pampered as the pictures by OP and billd show. Those seem to have become the rule rather than the exception. The panels AMC designed met the primary design requirements: inexpensive and were operated properly past the warranty period. No manufacturer designs for a 50 + year service life. I was musing earlier in this thread about a re-pop fuse panel. As there is a good chance I will be unemployed soon (aaaand loving it!), I might have some extra time on my hands to look at this and see how feasible it would be to do. It's not outside my field of expertise by any means.
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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 11:02pm
I have some originals unless you have some for patterns. I was going to restore them........... ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |