290 to t-4 or 904 questions
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110043
Printed Date: Apr/16/2024 at 2:21am
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Topic: 290 to t-4 or 904 questions
Posted By: Texas275
Subject: 290 to t-4 or 904 questions
Date Posted: Mar/29/2021 at 2:51pm
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I have a 1966 bone stock 290 to put into a 70 Javelin that was a 6 cyl/manual. I also have a t-4 or a 904 to back it up with. Not looking to do any racing, simply a curser. I am using the 290 and listed transmissions because they are what I have. I know that I will need the V-8 crossmember, and the adaptor to attach a late trans (904) to the early motor. I know I will need a 290 flywheel or flex plate depending on which way I go. What I don't know is what else I would need for the T-4 like which bellhousing? What transmission crossmember would I need for either application? Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated, Tom |
Replies:
Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/29/2021 at 7:41pm
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904 wouldn't work behind the 290. It's got the wrong crankshaft flange. You'll have to have a machine shop modify the face of the crankshaft flange to match the later transmission.
Not sure about the T-4 though.
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Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Mar/29/2021 at 9:50pm
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This is strictly from memory - so take this as such, but a T-4 and T-5 are the same case and interchangeable IN a late 80's Jeep. The short V8 6.5" bellhousing from a later Jeep or AMC 87-89 will bolt to the 290 and the T-4 should bolt to that bellhousing. Clutch will be a problem for a 66 but it can be fabricated or go hydraulic. The 904 will need a crankshaft flange adaptor, bell housing spacer and transmission mount fabrication. Both options will need a new driveshaft. The 1970 I6 has the same 8" bell housing and clutch as the V8 in 1970. The 290 would be a bolt in option except for the engine cross member. What bellhousing, if any, do you have for the 290? Also is this a 3 on the tree or a floor shifter car? That also starts to make economic decisions. |
Posted By: Buzzman72
Date Posted: Mar/30/2021 at 5:50am
Nope-nope-nope-nope-nope. Until the '72 models came out with the 904 as an option, the 6 and the V8 bells were different. Sixes through '71 had the starter on the opposite [left] side of the engine from the V8. ------------- Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects. |
Trader wrote:Posted By: SC397
Date Posted: Mar/30/2021 at 6:31am
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You would have to match balance a 304 (or 6cyl) 904 flex plate to the 290 flex plate then buy a adapter kit. https://flic.kr/p/JGjFLa" rel="nofollow">  https://flic.kr/p/JGjFLa" rel="nofollow - IMG_4014 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/149168736@N07/" rel="nofollow - Rick Jones , on FlickrThen you would have to rework the Rambler transmission cross member to adapt it to the 904.
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Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Mar/30/2021 at 7:56am
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My mistake, thanks for the correction Buzzman72. It was 71 that they standardized the bells and not 70.
No that's wrong again. the 1971 258 used the standardized V8 bolt pattern and the 232 used it in 1972. You could still get the drivers side starter on the 232 in 71. Well now I'm going in circles. The 71 258 I6 AMC cars all/maybe had the smaller bellhousing and were burning up clutches. Some time in 71 Jeep and IH were using the 258 and they could be found with the V8 bell, but not all. I don't have a Jeep TSM but the Jeep Forums state for 71 you had to look at the starting motor location to determine if you could easily drop in a 304/360 or not. This must have been a running year change and the heavier Jeep and IH would definitely want the larger clutch. |
Posted By: Texas275
Date Posted: Mar/30/2021 at 12:53pm
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Thanks for the advice. The only bell I have now is attached to the 3-speed that came in the 70 Javelin, I think it is a T-14. I knew I would need a driveshaft made for it. What clutch, pp, and bearing would I need to use? Would the flywheel, clutch, pp, from the 232 work; as long as I get it balanced for the 290? Sorry for all the questions, but this car is gonna need a ton of work, so I'm trying to figure out what to keep, what to sell, and what I need to build. Thanks again, Tom |
Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Mar/30/2021 at 5:16pm
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The T4, T5 and SR4 bellhousing is 6.3" to 6.4". The can be found on late 70's - early 80's AMC I6 or Jeeps. 72 and newer, all bellhousings will fit the engine. But not all bellhousings will fit all transmissions. There is a 87 to 89/90 Jeep short bellhousing that is made for multiple transmissions. The T10 4 speed is an 8" bellhousing, that will not work for you. A Jeep with a Peugeot 5 speed, 86-89, bell housing will not work either. The 232 had 2x different size clutches and flywheels. You will need a clutch and pressure plate that fits the 290 -401, recommend a diaphragm clutch. Clutch and PP are neutral balance. You need a 290 flywheel for balance. The T4 TOB is the same as the T5, I'd look at Jeep parts of the era to pull this together as they are more plentiful. The pilot bearing for the 290 would be the same as the T5 conversions, plenty to search on the Forum. All this, and you have the 904, you may want to go SC397's route and use that, Last I priced a 290 flywheel, it was $400 US billet. They are not that easy to find any more. You can find running 360's for the price of the 290 flywheel. The 904 will bolt right up - may be the easiest and cheaper route. Certainly stronger then the T4. |
Posted By: Texas275
Date Posted: Mar/31/2021 at 9:45am
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If I could find a 360 at that price point, I would be all over it. That’s what I got in my 69 Javelin. Not any around me that I can find. I have a complete 290 carb to pan I would gladly trade for a 360!!😁 The 290 flywheel or flex plate will be my biggest expense in getting this motor in.
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 7:00am
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The multi pattern six cylinder bell housing started about 1979 and was used through 86 in Jeeps and Eagles. Easy to ID -- there are 6-8 holes in the face where the trans bolts on instead of just four. It will mount the old style T-14 as well as the newer SR4/T-4/T5. It will even mount the old late 60s T-96 and other trannys, but the bearing retainer is a different diameter, so care must be taken to line the trans up properly. I did it by modifying an old SR4 retainer to fit a T-96, but that trans didn't last long behind a bigger six. It was a temporary measure until I found a stronger trans. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: SC397
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 7:55am
I can ship a rebuildable 360 to you for $250.00 plus shipping. Sorry, no trades. LOL! You could find a early 6cyl or a 343 flywheel or flex plate and have it match balanced to your existing 290 flex plate if you want to use the 290.
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Posted By: Heavy 488
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 7:56am
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MU 1675-1D zoom clutch for a Jeep works on the swap. Has disc, plate and bearing. It also comes with pilot bushings and alignment tool. You'll need to replace the bushing for the correct ID. For the T4 or T5 make sure that you have the Jeep bearing retainer. Speedo cable is the same as your old trans.
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Posted By: Texas275
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 8:10am
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My biggest/most expensive problem is I don't have a 290 flex plate or flywheel at all. I could pick up a neutral balance fly wheel or flex plate but I don't have a 290 to match balance it with. I am assuming the machine shop would need a 290 plate/wheel to match the balance with another. is it possible to get the the balance specs to weight one without a using a master?
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Posted By: Heavy 488
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 8:21am
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Put a 290 flywheel request in wanted. |
Posted By: Texas275
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 8:50am
| I have found them but they are crazy expensive. Trying to keep y costs down. |
Posted By: Heavy 488
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 9:02am
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Not a lot of options. You can toss about a hundred at a used 290 flywheel. You can toss 400 towards a new billet piece that has no projected build date ( been there). Or just scrap the idea. |
Posted By: Heavy 488
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 10:16am
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Maybe make it easier. What are you planning on a budget for the whole swap? Everything from bellhousing to correct length driveshaft and yoke. Maybe it's feasible maybe it isn't. |
Posted By: Texas275
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 10:33am
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I will have to have the drive shaft done either way, I have the drive shaft and both yolks. The cost is about the same if I go 904 or T-4. I would prefer the T-4 so I would have another gear. My wife says I'm cheap, I prefer frugal; I have hard time dropping $400.00 on a flywheel. I haven't found any of the $100.00 used flywheels.
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 11:50pm
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I have learned to think in terms of what a $$$ part does to the overall project -- a single pricey part that solves a problem in one shot is a bargain. WHen I arbitrarily assign a price to a part based on past experience, it often hangs me up thinking-wise. A pair of new expensive OEM brake calipers is still cheaper than buying a whole disc conversion kit, never mind all the work and balancing etc. That $400 flywheel is a bargain if it gets you precisely what you want in one shot. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: 1969jav
Date Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 10:52pm
| So mine has the borg t35 also in the 232 or 290 what would i need to do to add a better transmission? What all can i add? What would i need? |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/09/2021 at 6:09am
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You've actually got a Borg Warner M-40, which is a bit stronger than a 35. Keeping the stock 69 six there really isn't much you can do as far as a stronger transmission -- nothing else bolts to that motor. Later AMC sixes are pretty easy to get though, so it would be better to get a builder 1972 or later 258 (or even a 4.0L, even if you put a carb on it) and use the Chrysler 904 or 998 trans. You can use the same trans behind a 290 or any other 67-71 AMC V-8 by buying an adapter for the earlier engine. The six cylinder 904 is a little weak for a built-up 290/304, but would be fine for a cruiser as long as you install a towing/HD shift kit, and I'd install an external cooler as well. The 304 typically used a 998 trans, which is a bit stronger than a 904. 360 and larger used the 727, which is overkill, really. A 727 is a great trans, but it's very heavy and takes a lot of power just to turn. Most drag racers use a built 904 or 998, but that cost a good bit to rebuild with the upgraded parts to handle a lot of power. A mild 290 (small 4V and cam) will be fine with a 904/shift kit/added cooler for cruising around and an occasional fun pass down the strip, but if you plan on running it hard a lot go find a 998 (Eagles and Jeeps used a 998 or later model CJs 999), but they are all 4x4. IIRC the output shaft and housing from a 904 will fit a 998/999, but trans must be torn apart to change. You could also go with a AW4 four speed auto from a 2WD Cherokee. There is a thread in the trans section about using one of those. Nice HD trans with overdrive, and bolts right up with the late to early trans adapter. You could also use an adapter from Novak or Advance Adapters for a GM 200R4 or TH350. ------------- Frank Swygert |