The TSM shows it done using compressed air to hold the valves up, and a spring compressor.

 

Don't have compressed air but I thought to do it by feeding rope into the cylinder and then winding it up towards TDC.

 

Tried with this sort of spring compressor https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Kits-Engine-Overhead-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Valve-Removal-Installer-Tool/124525521339?hash=item1cfe4ca9bb:g:lJcAAOSwip5f6N1T" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Kits-Engine-Overhead-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Valve-Removal-Installer-Tool/124525521339?hash=item1cfe4ca9bb:g:lJcAAOSwip5f6N1T

 

Didn't work. Can't hold the valve tight enough against the seat, might have worked with vertical valves but with the canted valves the rope hits the head before it hits the valves.

And the spring compressor only catches about two thirds of the coils, so one way and another couldn't get the locks out of the top retainer.

 

Is there a way to do this?

 

What with the stem seals - if there are any there at all - and the rear main leaking, my otherwise healthy engine gets through about a pint in 100 miles. On the positive side, it keeps the oil fresh.....

 

Ivor

https://www.totalperformance.net.au/gm-ls-rocker-arm-trunnion-installation-tool-kit?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0fr_BRDaARIsAABw4Esxxmq4OgoEY2xwj88UbX_88PKkYkdukIeVr0Sz9N8IXii1peA82SUaAl1uEALw_wcB" rel="nofollow - https://www.totalperformance.net.au/gm-ls-rocker-arm-trunnion-installation-tool-kit?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0fr_BRDaARIsAABw4Esxxmq4OgoEY2xwj88UbX_88PKkYkdukIeVr0Sz9N8IXii1peA82SUaAl1uEALw_wcB

I've used both the rope and compressed air method and either works fine, you do need to feed a fair bit of rope into the cylinder and I find the compressed air method more efficient.

I used an old spark plug, broke off the ceramic, and JB Welded an air line fitting to it. If you want, I will mail it to you to use as long as you promise to mail it back. 

I removed the fan belt but the fan really gets in the way when one is trying to turn the engine. I may try taking the fan off but I seem to remember the bolts are too long to clear the rad.

A chap suggested removing the locks by hitting the retainer with a deep socket with a magnet attached, he said the locks will leap out and be caught by the magnet. Which may be so but doesn't help getting them back in.

 

I did manage to loosen the locks, but couldn't get enough clearance to remove them.

 

WesternRed wrote: This style of compressor is the ticket if you have stud mounted rockers....need to feed a fair bit of rope into the cylinder >...

 

Bolt-mounted, held on by four head bolts. If I had some stud... which I could buy... but I did think to make a spring compressor with angle iron, attaching to the head bolts. I haven't measured the bolts but I bet they're 7/16 considering AMC's fascination with sixteenths.

 

The first time I tried I fed in half a mile of thin rope, then I tried with six feet of thicker rope, the blue stuff we call builder's rope. The valve still drops a quarter inch. I should try again...

 

rang-a-stang wrote: You don't need much of a compressor to do the compressed air method. You can get one of those $55 cheapie pancake compressors and do it. If you watch craigslist/facebook market place, they show up used fairly often for super cheap. Then, when you are done, you have a compressor, too. I used an old spark plug, broke off the ceramic, and JB Welded an air line fitting to it. If you want, I will mail it to you to use as long as you promise to mail it back.

 

I did have a compressor, never used it, so it got sold when we moved house. That was nine years ago and this is the first time I would have used it...

That's a very kind offer, especially considering the postage to the UK.

 

Actually, I do have one of those Mickey Mouse jobs that eventually pumps your tyres up. I wonder if that would do it. Maybe I should try again with the blue rope.

 

Afterthought... Rock sent me sixteen seals... are they really on the exhaust?

 

Ivor

Thanks.

Yes, I tried that. Helped, but not enough. I think the main problem is the valve falling down. Just that 1/4" makes the difference.

 

However, now I found a spark plug air connector. One has to know the correct search term - Compressed Air Adaptor which I came across in a fancy spring compressor set.

Then we find this https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637204961/compressed-air-adaptor-use-with-vs160" rel="nofollow - https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637204961/compressed-air-adaptor-use-with-vs160  which is all over eBay, and then we just need a 1/4"bsp bayonet.

 

And a compressor.

There's a compressor for sale 35 miles way on eBay, it's 7 cfm. Will that be enough?

 

Ivor

on the engine in my distant past.

As previously mentioned, be careful!

If you don't keep it at TDC and preferably

locked from rotating it may dismember or maim you.

I bought a compressor with a 50 litre tank. Just happened to be local on eBay

 

 

 

Then I bought a fancy spring compressor set https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vidaXL-Pro-Cylinder-Head-Service-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Removal-Installer/124386114241?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vidaXL-Pro-Cylinder-Head-Service-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Removal-Installer/124386114241?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 .

Had to file out the fixing holes to take the 7/16" head bolts, and buy some threaded rod as hold-downs.

 

 

 

This set included a flexible air connector for the spark plug holes.

 

 

 

The valve gear has been off at some point. The rockers were all numbered in red paint, as if it were someone not familiar with the engine. There was nothing that looked like a seal, unless this was it.

Did he leave them out, or was this actually a seal?

Not like the pic in the TSM...........

 

 

 

These are the seals that came from Rock. They slip over the guides.

 

 

 

I just did the inlets. Don't think the exhausts really need them.

 

Getting the retainers back in was a struggle. They wanted to sit too high up. Fortunately I didn't have a free hand to wallop them, just had to wiggle around until they clicked into place.

 

It took me most of the day to do the four seals on the odd bank. Don't think I'd make any money running a shop.

 

The compressor was running most of the time to maintain 90psi air. After an hour or so there was water coming down the line so I had to stop and drain the tank. Should have done that before I started but this is the first compressor I ever used and I didn't know.

 

Not sure if I'll do the even bank. I'll see how energetic I feel, and whether it shows any benefit. There seemed to be less smoke from the tailpipe when I started up, but that could be my imagination.

 

What with buying the compressor and the spring set, it's cost about $200 to fit $5 of seals. Oh well.

 

Ivor

 

This is the explosion of the valve assy. You see how the seal looks.

It also shows the factory spring compressor, that you can't buy anymore. And I'm not sure there's room to use it in the car anyway.

 

 

 

That page is from the 62 TSM. Same engine as my 63 and I do have the 63 TSM as well, but the 62 is twice as thick and has more and larger pictures so I like to look at both.

 

From 62 to 63, it seems the accountants got at the TSM.

 

Ivor

"There was nothing that looked like a seal, unless this was it."

So I put a seal over the seal.

Hmmm. Well.

OK.

 

Ivor

The seals that were installed are a considerably better design than the OEM cup type you want to install.  If the valves are tight in the guide (you did try to wiggle the valve stem around when you had the springs removed, didn't you?), then you will not have any appreciable oil getting in to the combustion chamber.  Especially not enough to make the engine smoke while in operataion.

I hope that helps!

Chris 

Oooh, don't do that.  The valve stems need some oil leakage to be lubricated.  If the OEM seals aren't destroyed during operation and remain intact, I fear what you have done may lead to seized valve stems.

[/QUOTE]

6PakBee wrote: Oooh, don't do that.  The valve stems need some oil leakage to be lubricated.  If the OEM seals aren't destroyed during operation and remain intact, I fear what you have done may lead to seized valve stems.

I agree. That's why I only did the inlets.

Looking at the diameter of these Felco seals, it's clear that they were meant to be added over the OEM seal. The base diameter is too large to be a tight fit over the guides.

 

I do wonder how long the new seals will last. They look a bit Mickey Mouse. Fortunately there is plenty of spare travel on the valve so at least they won't squash.

 

Probably a lot of the oil is going out of the main crank seal, but I don't want to deal with that, so this is a way of putting it off.

 

Ivor

I'm not sure you should assume that.  From what I've personally seen there are two general types of stem seals, the first being the wiper style that typically grips the valve guide by friction or some type of locking groove(s) and physically wipes the valve stem with every cycle.  The second is the umbrella style that shields the top of the guide from excessive oil raining on it.  Typically the ones for the exhaust look like a shallow saucer and the intakes look more like a cup as the intakes have more pressure differential but I have seen just the cup style with some engines.

Just because an umbrella seal ID is larger than a wiper style OD doesn't mean they should be used together.

 

The seal is quite tight on the stem. If it didn't grip the oem seal I could imagine it going up and down with the valve. For a while.

There are 16 in the box, so intended for inlet & exhaust it seems. Don't really see the need on the exhaust.

 

Galvin were supposed to send me a set of seals but they never came, so don't know what I would have got from them.

 

Ivor

Great story.

This x 2.

It will.  It's supposed to.  Regardless of it being called a seal it doesn't seal the guide, it acts like an umbrella, keeping the oil from the top of the guide boss.  Hence the name "umbrella seal".

The original seal needs to be removed and you need to put the seals on the exhaust valves as well.

Urrgh.

 

So should the umbrella be as high up the valve as possible, or as low down? Maybe they find their own level.

 

Presumably I need to clean the valve stems so the umbrellas will grip.

 

I referred to the existing seals as OEM, but from what I've read they aren't: I suppose it's had a head rebuild at some point and these Perfect Circle have been put in. When new, they would hasve been an improvement.

Be nice if I had service records from that time so I knew how old they are, but there's a big gap in the paperwork. Not so useful now, knowing what was done in 1966.

 

V8

Seals should be down low.
 

 

There is no perceptible play in the valve stems/guides, but the wipe seals came over the stems without friction, so I doubt they were doing much wiping any more.

 

More new umbrellas  on the inlets only, threw the umbrellas I fitted before in the bin.

The retainers went back in a lot more easily. I think the wipe seals sat a little higher on top of the guides and didn't allow the valve spring to compress as far.

 

The exhaust seems clean, not that it means much as I've still only done the odd bank.

Tomorrow the even bank.

 

Haven't driven the car since Christmas.

Onwards

 

Ivor

 

Then I took off the no 4 valve spring and

 

 

Engine was running OK.

Rock have none in stock so I ordered from APD. Haven't used them before.

 

I rebuilt the vac pump or at least cleaned and resealed it, three years ago. It's a pig to get back onto the engine, not helped that one of the threads in the block is part-stripped where someone else has had a fight with it.

I see APD have remans, but they want my old pump first. Do I dare send it via the mail. Nooo.

 

Perhaps I should fit an electric vac pump and vac switch.. Hmmm.

 

Ivor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But Galvins to the rescue.

 

So now all the umbrellas are done. There seems to be a lot less smoke from the tailpipe.

 

I checked the vacuum on the pump - 15". Not too shabby.

 

Ivor