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Phenolic Spacers

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IB Sorgn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IB Sorgn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 7:19am
Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

Thanks, that is useful information. I do have minor heat soak issues, where the car doesn't want to start for about 5 or 6 seconds of cranking if it shuts down hot and sits for 10 minutes or so. I have long suspected that heat soak and the infamous Holley issues with that are happening. I don't have any spacer at all between my Holley and an R4B intake, due to a Ram air hood.

I unfortunately don't have much room for a full spacer, but I wonder how thick the spacer would actually need to be? Perhaps a 1/8" insulating layer of something would do it?

Chris 

The smallest I've seen of a phenolic spacer was 1/2" and I believe Edelbrock has a Carburetor Heat Insulator Gasket which is about 1/3" but I don't know anything concerning their performance.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IB Sorgn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Heavy 488 Heavy 488 wrote:

the factory heat isolator/ gasket is closer to 3/8". Just like the one sold by Edelbrock#9266. They don't need to be over an inch to be effective. It has the grommets on all 4 corners so it can't be over torqued. 

What type of temperature difference does it make?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 7:28am
Originally posted by IB Sorgn IB Sorgn wrote:

Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

Thanks, that is useful information. I do have minor heat soak issues, where the car doesn't want to start for about 5 or 6 seconds of cranking if it shuts down hot and sits for 10 minutes or so. I have long suspected that heat soak and the infamous Holley issues with that are happening. I don't have any spacer at all between my Holley and an R4B intake, due to a Ram air hood.

I unfortunately don't have much room for a full spacer, but I wonder how thick the spacer would actually need to be? Perhaps a 1/8" insulating layer of something would do it?

Chris <span style="font-size: 13.5px;">
</span>

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">The smallest I've seen of a phenolic spacer was 1/2" and I believe Edelbrock has a <span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51;">Carburetor Heat Insulator Gasket which is about 1/3" but I don't know anything concerning their performance.   </span><span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: Skin-market-sans; font-weight: 700; font-size: 0.75em;"> </span>


That's why I picked up a 2" spacer. Chop saw the perfect size from it.

One could do the same with any size smaller, if needed. My picture shows they are hollow and if cut the spacer will not fall a part in separate components.

One could also fill in the open chambers of the cut off end, and use it for another engine.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 8:32am
Originally posted by IB Sorgn IB Sorgn wrote:

Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

Thanks, that is useful information. I do have minor heat soak issues, where the car doesn't want to start for about 5 or 6 seconds of cranking if it shuts down hot and sits for 10 minutes or so. I have long suspected that heat soak and the infamous Holley issues with that are happening. I don't have any spacer at all between my Holley and an R4B intake, due to a Ram air hood.

I unfortunately don't have much room for a full spacer, but I wonder how thick the spacer would actually need to be? Perhaps a 1/8" insulating layer of something would do it?

Chris 

The smallest I've seen of a phenolic spacer was 1/2" and I believe Edelbrock has a Carburetor Heat Insulator Gasket which is about 1/3" but I don't know anything concerning their performance.    


1/2" was the stock spacer under my carb on my 70. I think I still have a NOS one I could check again, but I went through the whole R4B under factory ram air fiasco on my 70. R4B sits 1" higher, take out the 1/2" spacer and it's still 1/2" higher than the factory intake. I did all the measuring years ago and posted the info here in the forum. I ended up cutting down the foam seal between hood and air filter tub to make things work, but couldn't run the spacer without troubles. You could hear the fuel literally boiling in that stupid Edelbrock carb. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 11:15am
I have my stock phenolic spacer still, complete with PCV hook ups etc. I found that under a 70 ram air set up you could run the Holley and R4B but you could not run the spacer and you need a cut down foam seal. Back in the day I ran a Carter (Edelbrock) 625 competition series and it fit better than the Holley, but I don't recall if I used the spacer or not. 

How thick does an insulating spacer need to be? Is the heat soaking into the bowls just by rising off the intake or is it actually being conducted through the metal?

Thanks!

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 11:26am
Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

I have my stock phenolic spacer still, complete with PCV hook ups etc. I found that under a 70 ram air set up you could run the Holley and R4B but you could not run the spacer and you need a cut down foam seal. Back in the day I ran a Carter (Edelbrock) 625 competition series and it fit better than the Holley, but I don't recall if I used the spacer or not. 

How thick does an insulating spacer need to be? Is the heat soaking into the bowls just by rising off the intake or is it actually being conducted through the metal?

Thanks!

Chris 

Yes.  Well, it is both to an extent...........

Mostly conduction. Aluminum is a great conductor, as I recall only silver, gold and copper are better. so if the base is aluminum (bowls are typically zinc or zinc alloy) then the aluminum will conduct that heat up to the bowl. And the aluminum intake makes it worse as steel and cast iron are not great conductors compared to aluminum. 

I've seen some cars actually use a spacer with a sort of "cooling fin" - a piece that sticks out all around as you see on small air cooled engines. 

Sounds like you found what I did - R4B is 1" taller and I bet my post here showing how I measured is still around. So you lift the carb up by 1". When I got my 70 there was no spacer - due to the R4B height. Leaving out the spacer helped the height issue a bit, but created other issues with heat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 11:34am
Just me.  Dont do this if you run the car in the winter.   I block the heat passages in the crossover.  I think that helps quite a bit.   I block every intake on my cars.

Ymmv.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 11:38am
GM had some heat shields if I recall that might help with the float bowls. My issues are relatively minor, it will always start but it's a bit embarrassing to have to crank it for that long. Perhaps a few layers of cork gaskets? I should have room for that.

Thanks!

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 11:57am
Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

GM had some heat shields if I recall that might help with the float bowls. My issues are relatively minor, it will always start but it's a bit embarrassing to have to crank it for that long. Perhaps a few layers of cork gaskets? I should have room for that.

Thanks!

Chris 


It's also hard on batteries, starters, etc. to have to crank more than 2 or 3 seconds............ I've seen the results of some starters - solder thrown everywhere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 12:02pm
I also block the heat crossover. Trust me, where I live there is not much likelihood of my going for a drive in December. 

Thanks!

Chris 
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