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performance clutch 70 390

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mymark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mymark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: performance clutch 70 390
    Posted: Apr/06/2021 at 7:49pm
Looking for a good B&B ( borg & beck) for my 70 390 build around 400 hp . What,s a good set ?  What are you using ?
Donohue
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iapexl8r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iapexl8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/06/2021 at 8:27pm
I Also am in need of a clutch on my 1970 390 , my throw out bearing is just starting to make noise. I put the center force Clutch in less than 15k miles ago now throw out bearing makin noise..
So I am planing on trying a Ram https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-88772hdx/make/american-motors clutch. Pic shows a diaphram but specs say borg and beck. Also waiting to see what everyone else has to say.
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Steve_P View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 1:57pm
Search and you'll find plenty of answers.  Centerforce DF is popular here and no problem with 400 HP.
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mymark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mymark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 4:56pm
Thanks Steve P but I want to stay with the factory B&B style the Ram one looks pretty good , just trying to find the best deal for one here on Vancouver Island , Canada .
Donohue
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ccowx View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2021 at 7:30pm
I have used the Ram clutch 88499HDX if memory serves. Only thing to make sure of is that the TO bearing is the correct one. Their kit is universal and has the older, larger one for the 69 and earlier version. 

Thanks!

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 9:37am
iapexl8r, 

I think the 772 clutch is the lighter duty version. If I recall correctly, the 499 set is the heavier duty version. You might want to check in with Ram themselves to see what they reccommend. I found their tech folks very helpful.  I know that the 499 is about a 2800 pound PP and it has no problem with holding my mild 390. Pedal pressure is stiff, but reasonable.

Again, there is an issue with the TO bearing in that the kit comes with the 69 and earlier version, which is too large for the stock 70 and up version. It will fit but it will rattle on the bearing retainer and eventually wear it right through. I have the numbers for the correct bearings for each, so if you need that please let me know. 

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iapexl8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 11:29am
ccowx part numbers would be great!

I do not see a 499 on summits website but there is a 772 HD what nerved me is in the description it says  "This is the highest capacity single disc clutch for street/strip. Some clutch chatter should be expected."
searching the ram website I found the 499,( https://ramclutches.com/product/88499HDX/ ) I dont know why summit doesnt have it listed in the search.  it looks like the 499 is the one thank you.  its even a lot cheaper!

-chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 2:44pm
N1489 is the TO bearing for the larger 69 and earlier unit, N1491 is the correct one for 70 and up. The bearing retainer is interchangable so check which one you have. PAS style does recommend the larger unit, but I am not sure how much difference that would make for a weekend street strip car.Either way, the 88499HDX kit will include the N1491 version. 

I have used the 499 set for a few years now and I will say, it is a stiff clutch, but not silly. It seems compatible with the stock Z-bar and linkage and no excessive stress on them. It feels good and grabs well and feels like an old performance clutch. It is fairly short travel, which is typical for a B+B clutch. If I was driving the car in traffic regularly or parades, I might go something a bit lighter but I like it for a weekend car. My car is in the 13's and has probably just under 400 hp and it seems well matched. 

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 3:39pm
Why do you want to stay with B&B?  A diaphragm clutch like a CF DF will drop right it; it's not like you have to change anything.  B&B works, but is outdated- does any new vehicle use a B&B clutch?
I've used the Hays street and strip B&B, but the pedal pressure is probably 3X what a CF DF is.  But if you want B&B, that's what you'll deal with no matter what brand as you'll want ~3000 lb clamping force.
 When I first tried the CF DF after installing it, I thought something was broken- the pedal force was like a Honda Civic.  oops.  tiny font
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ram Air Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Steve_P Steve_P wrote:

Why do you want to stay with B&B?  A diaphragm clutch like a CF DF will drop right it; it's not like you have to change anything.  B&B works, but is outdated- does any new vehicle use a B&B clutch?
I've used the Hays street and strip B&B, but the pedal pressure is probably 3X what a CF DF is.  But if you want B&B, that's what you'll deal with no matter what brand as you'll want ~3000 lb clamping force.
 When I first tried the CF DF after installing it, I thought something was broken- the pedal force was like a Honda Civic.  oops.  tiny font

Mymark.... Steve P is telling you the absolute truth !  I was going to appeal to you one more time too (and I guess this is it). The points Steve makes are 100% my personal experience with the CF DF clutch. 

If your reason to insist on the Borg and Beck short style clutch is holding force and or durability, the CF DF clutch is way up to the task and then there's the drivability, which as Steve points out, requires so little pedal pressure. It's also easier to control.

I've had one in my 68 AMX since 2006. I race the car at the Pure Stock Drags. I've put over 5000 miles on it and have between 300 - 400 drag strip passes with burnouts, and it's still going strong.

Do yourself a favor and consider this strongly.


Rich Corsello
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