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Overheating. Scratching My Head.

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AMXFSTBK390 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2019 at 7:38pm
[QUOTE=george w]

BTW, have you done a compression check ? There's no way that the engine should overheat just idling. 

Some of the engines I installed overheated in a few minutes after idling. After burping the system, the engines ran great ...did not overheat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zyzx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2019 at 8:11pm
Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate your input. 

I just retightened the alternator/water pump belt to be sure. It's now very tight. I've also rotated the upper radiator hose a bit to make it sit a little more level with the top of the radiator. Still overheated. 

Good catch on the compressor fittings. That's actually part of the problem I think, the upper radiator hose barely clears the suction port hose because of its proximity, so it sits slightly higher than the radiator. But I wouldn't think that would be enough to cause an overheat condition. My AMC 360 in my wagoneer doesn't seem to have any problems despite having a similar looking upper radiator hose orientation. 



One of the first things I did was burp the car by jacking the front end. I followed that with burping it plus using one of those Lisle easy fill funnels. That didn't work so I bought the vacuum filling system, which also didn't work. 

I am also worried about the compression but I have checked that and like I mentioned earlier it's 155-160 across the board. 

I will remove the thermostat next and lower hose next and run a the garden hose through it to see what it does. I do think it is a flow problem (if it's not a head gasket or worse) as the lower radiator hose never really gets warm. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2019 at 8:41pm
The absolute worse case scenario would be if some idiot knock the freeze plugs into the block rather than pull the freeze plugs.Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SCRAGTOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 2:39pm
Easy to diagnose the water pump on the car.

1. Wait for the engine to be cold. (Let sit overnight or for 4 or 5 hours)
2. Remove radiator cap.
3. Start car.
4. Observe thru radiator fill neck the coolant level.
5. As enginge warms and t-stat opens, water will start to flow.
6. Reinstall cap or shut engine off.

If no water flow, t-stat not opening or pump impellar not moving.

To me it sounds like the t-stat is not installed correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zyzx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 6:10pm
Took the thermostat out and disconnected the lower hose. The thermostat was in there correctly (I never doubted that) Back flushed the engine, nothing but clean coolant came out and it seemed to be flowing out a decent rate out of the lower hose. I reconnected the upper and lower hoses and ran it without the thermostat. The temp climbed up to the upper one third of the gauge, definitely on the hotter side of the halfway way mark. I would say 210-220. 

Right around that time, I heard a pop from the my small battery jump starter pack and saw that it had bloated and popped open it's plastic. No big deal, I took it off the fender, placed it on the ground and went back to checking out the car. About 1 min later, a huge pop and fireball, the thing had caught on fire! It was burning pretty hot for a while. For all those who use these things, be careful. I've always heard that lithium ion batteries can spontaneously combust but never thought I'd witness it. 

I turned off the car and once I put out the fire, my dead battery couldn't start the car and it's not taking a charge anymore. I can't be bothered to take a battery out of another car so I will wait till I buy another battery and jump starter. 

Seems like the flow was much better without the thermostat but the temp did climb up to more than I would like. Once I get it started again. I will let it run longer to see if it overheats, I have a feeling that it will. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 6:19pm
Air in upper hose can't prevent water flow through that hose. The water would push up and over the "hump" as quick as the pump could push it. Air in the engine is another matter as that isolates the thermostat, causes hot spots and so on. Thus the small hole in some states such as with the 4.0

But if you think of it - a whole lot of cars before the sealed systems, coolant recovery systems and so on had the "hump" with air in it because the radiator didn't run totally full meaning when you pulled the cap and looked - the upper hose would be half air because it sat above the level of coolant in the radiator. 
Air in the block, yeah, but the air in the hose won't block flow, it's not a solid or wall that could stop the pump from pushing coolant up and over and into the radiator. We'd have heaters not work and other issues otherwise. 

I never saw any response on the coolant type - AMC says that an engine running 205 degrees (can't recall their test RPM!) will pump 60 gpm with pure water - 73 gpm with a 50/50 mix - they were talking about over-heating due to incorrect coolant. 
As said, leaking head gaskets, that sort of thing, can cause over-heating in situations not normally seen. 

Geesh, I hope no one shoved the plugs into the block instead of removing them!

Odd thing - of all the cars I've worked on over the years, the AMC 6s - specifically the 4.0 I can think of, are the only engines I've seen where I had a problem with air trapped in the engine causing issues. Never had to do more than run a car with the CAP OFF and let them get warm, cool down, warm, cool down and they all solved themselves. Chevy, Ford, AMC, you name it. We did cooling system flushes, radiator work, thermostats, valve jobs, all of that on everything from Datsun, to Honda and all of the domestic makes - never any issue I can think of as far as having them not get the air out. 
Am I lucky or what?
Or do I just warm 'em up differently? Leaving the cap off, going through a couple heating and cooling cycles and so on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zyzx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 6:29pm
I am running prestone 50/50 mix. I agree with you, I don't think air in the hose is/was the issue but just in case I wanted to take that out of the equation. I don't even really buy that air trapped in the block will cause it but people swear by it so I accept it. 

I don't think my problem is solved. I think it will overheat once I run it longer. I see the heads coming off in my near future. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote george w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 7:02pm
Sorry about asking about the compression check as I see that you had done that. You mentioned that you took the t-stat out. Before pulling the engine apart start with the engine cold and the rad. cap off. Start the car up and observe the water flow in the top tank by looking through the rad.neck. Even at idle you should be able to see a noticeable flow of coolant
Something doesn't make sense that it was fine before you changed the hoses and now you have a problem. If the engine seems to be running properly and the timing is at or close to spec and you're not getting compression gases into the cooling system then there's hardly anything that could cause such a rapid heat rise other than impeded coolant flow. Either a water pump problem which is not that likely though it's possible that there's a problem with the impeller, like it being loose on the shaft. The impeller blade orientation should be the same as that of the pump in the picture you posted. I suppose you could have some severely mudded up blockage in the block but you'd have to pull the freeze plugs to check that.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 7:04pm
Truth is that after all the good ideas I think
that you have a junk radiator.

I never had a AMC V8 over heat unless the radiator was junk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2019 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Boris Badanov Boris Badanov wrote:

Truth is that after all the good ideas I think
that you have a junk radiator.

I never had a AMC V8 over heat unless the radiator was junk.



That's my personal experience with all three of mine, and my brother's as well........ 
Eagle got hot only on the highway - radiator
70 Javelin got hot at lower speeds - radiator fixed that
73 got hot in town, not as bad on the highway - radiator fixed that
In fact now two of them run pretty cool - lower part of normal range. 
Radiators all "looked ok" and I even had one of them worked on by a shop.

Anyway, that's my personal experiences on MY cars. 
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