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Oil pump drive gear
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tomj View Drop Down
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Points: 7544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2021 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

I would be curious to know.

OK I'll look.

Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

Obviously, one would plug the external oil line hole in the head. Just wonder if anything else in the oil passages is different.

No! Still need to oil the top end in the usual manner. The 65 (63 up? Frank knows) has the "timed oil" hack to the cam, with oil output above the lump in the block where the front cam bearing is. Older engines feed the top end from the main gallery.

Either way, the top end needs oil. I've got a 63 block (timed oil) but a 61 cam (no flat for timed oil) so I feed the head from the main gallery.


OOPS -- I already checked this. The 64-up blocks have a different oil pump mounting boss area that accommodates the new, full-flow oil pump. The 64-up pump system WILL NOT bolt onto older blocks. Read here:


Scroll down to "The 1964-up factory full-flow-filtration oil pump assembly"

The aluminum engine (used only in the 10 series (Classic) chassis) had a pump that incorporated full-flow filtration; in 1964 that pump was installed in iron 195.6 OHV engines in the new-for-1964 01 series (American). the filter on this pump will not clear the suspension or chassis of the pre-1964 01/American.

i got a rusted '64 pump from a friend, it was too far gone to use but it served as a model for cogitating on a solution. The fundamental limitation in the pre-1964 American chassis is clearance. i believe that if i had a decent Classic pump i could have modified it for my own ends, but i couldn't find one, and the non-filter pump is common enough so i based my hack on that.

Below are some pics of the 1965 full-flow filtration pump I got from Joe. Though the casting was too pitted to be used, I did make mods to it that would have solved the problem.

This casting is based upon the venerable old pump, but has a complicated cover that incorporates the overpressure bypass that dumps oil back to the pump inlet; therefore the filter will never get unregulated pressure. That's a required choice for an OEM environment, but not a much of a worry in mine.

Worse, this pump does not fit the earlier blocks; the block casting is wider at the pump mounting face, because there is a passageway in the pump outlet that requires the block face to seal it. The old blocks have air where the new block has cast iron.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com
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wittsend View Drop Down
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Points: 425 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2021 at 10:48am
Is it the actual housing that hits the chassis..., or the filter that hits? If it is the filter (due to its length - I believe it sits at an angle?) then I was curious if there is enough room to add a remote filter adapter due to its stubbiness (or a right angle adapter) and allow it to work on the early Americans.
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ramblinrev View Drop Down
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Points: 11538 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2021 at 11:49am
It's both. There's no room for the adaptor because the oil pump is so close to that inner fender/suspension mount on the early Americans.
It's also why you couldn't swap an aluminum 196 into the early American (it has a full flow system)...not that many people would want to, but someone like Tomj might find it to be an interesting challenge!
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62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384
70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)
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tomj View Drop Down
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Points: 7544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2021 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

It's both. There's no room for the adaptor because the oil pump is so close to that inner fender/suspension mount on the early Americans.

YOu got it exactly.

Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

It's also why you couldn't swap an aluminum 196 into the early American (it has a full flow system)...not that many people would want to, but someone like Tomj might find it to be an interesting challenge!

Funny you say that -- I am getting an aluminum engine soon! lol, just the block, as a planter, or coffee table base, or something. But I have wanted one in the past, and the same friend dumping some crap XXXXX gifting me a lovely object has a friend in the midwest who has multiple, *running, rebuilt by him* aluminum engines. Oh man I do want one! They're such a bad idea... 
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com
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IowaTom View Drop Down
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Points: 448 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IowaTom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2021 at 11:24am
<<as a planter, or coffee table base>>

You're obviously single.  
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Points: 425 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2021 at 11:30am
In my 40+ years of my (nearly monthly) trolling the So. Cal. Self Serve yards, primarily the now defunct U-Pick Parts (Addlen Bros.) and Pick Your Part in Sun Valley, Ca. I only ever came across ONE AMC aluminum engine. And like most of the water cooled engines of that era I assumed it was there for a reason. So, to find a number of them in the mid-west seems a real find!
'63 American Hardtop
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tomj View Drop Down
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Points: 7544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2021 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by IowaTom IowaTom wrote:

<<as a planter, or coffee table base>>
You're obviously single.  

Lol, no, though my partner drives a Hornet, and even has a Hornet tattoo on his arm. I was half-joking (coffee table) but planter, maybe. We've got a large yard. It would be over in my half.  I'm using 63 Classic and 70 Hornet bumpers lining a walkway. And turns out leaf springs make good edging. 

No car parts in the house!
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com
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tomj View Drop Down
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Points: 7544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2021 at 9:57pm
A photo worth a thousand words.... But I still want those words. There's a lot going on here! I am more than a bit in awe...
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com
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Points: 644 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote First_Gear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2021 at 12:26am
I once looked at a 58 rambler which had an aluminum block 196 engine. I had no idea they were uncommon when I looked at it. The car was misrepresented so I passed. 
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IowaTom View Drop Down
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Points: 448 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IowaTom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2021 at 4:35pm
Wait, that engine looks like it's inside!  Okay, maybe a garage.
Ever see the later version of War of the Worlds, where Tom Cruise's character has one in his living room?
I love it!  The best winter place for working on one.  My wife would not agree, tho.
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