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Look what followed me home -- 61 American convert! |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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I never mind your opinions Tom! Mostly helpful, and if different than mine just gives me something to think about. The convert isn't much different than the sedans. Just take the roof and side window frames off! If you look at the body panel diagrams in the TSM you'll see that is pretty easy to do. Has to have a different B pillar is about all. The rear difference is in the under body bracing, necessary without the truss like roof bracing. I was going to do something like this under a roadster (which I may never build now...). I'm really surprised that your roadster is as stiff as it is, considering the convertible floor bracing. But not having the doors opening makes the difference. The X piece and the straight sections one each side of the X are convertible only. I haven't been under mine yet, but the X bracing is just 18 gauge folded steel welded to the body AFAIK. If I find different I'll post! The plate in the center is about 1/8" thick though, and bolts off for driveshaft removal.
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Haven't done much at all, but I did get a photo of the door tag! So one question I had was answered -- paint was originally red (Briarcliffe Red, code 30). The front seat may not be original, but could be. The Trim Code (137) breaks down as 1961 (1), seat type Vinyl Bucket (as far as I can tell, the "3" was for all convertibles, and I may be wrong assuming that for 1961 that was a bucket seat). I don't have my 61 sales literature handy, buckets may not have been available in 61. The interior seat color was Maroon (7). They have been reupholstered in a tan vinyl, and I'll keep them. The door cards and convertible side covers are covered in matching plain vinyl. I think I'll look for some trim for that big blank door panel, or maybe just a tape pin stripe to break it up. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Copied from "What did you do to the AMC today?", 01 January 20223: I finally did SOMETHING to my "new" 61 American convertible. Pulled
the staples out of the top bows. The material that the top staples into
appears to be a hard rubber? They are deteriorated enough I think they
will have to be replaced. Not that I'm planning on putting a top on
anytime soon! Anyone with experience with the old convertible tops
please drop me a PM. The hard rubber appears to be crimped into the top
bows, but I'm sure I could epoxy something in... but don't know exactly
what.
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Copied from "What did you do to the AMC today?", 28 January 20223: I finally got a little time to work on my "new" 61 convertible
last Thursday (Jan 26)!! Put the back up on jack stands then made some
hooks out of 3/16" bar stock for the "ears" on the spring seats. Didn't
compress any more, just made them long enough to catch. Then I put the
front up on jack stands. Spring seats were stuck on the upper trunnion
spring seat, but had room to come out. Took tires off and carefully
pried the seat up. The springs came out fine, but "popped" to the side
when they hit the floor (I didn't try to catch them when they came loose
from the spring seat!). The hooks are holding fine, will just be a
little tricky to get them off. The plan is to jack my 63 Classic up and
set it down on the springs one at a time, then take the hooks loose
while it's pinned under the car. Then go around to the front of the car
(springs will be just behind front tire) and jack it up. If the spring
comes out I'll be out of the way. I don't think it will, but better to
be safe! I expect I might run out of jack since the 58-63 American
springs are so tall though. Luckily I have two floor jacks, so if I have
to raise the car 22-23" I can. I figure that's much safer than using my
brothers' shop press. As I type the above
I just had a much better idea! I'll use by brother's tractor with front
end loader. Then I can position the spring and compress it to get the
hooks off and let it up without having to jack my car way up or be
anywhere near the spring just in case it decides to go flying. I can
also be out away from the shop and everything else that way! |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Well, it hasn't been a few weeks! Got some time today (Jan 29) to go do a little to the convertible. As planned, I took the front suspension off. Not a real tough job on these cars! I found that the right side has had the lower trunnion replaced with the "type 2" replacement (bottom goes through the lower trunnion and has a nut with cotter pin). The rear acorn nut (bushing) is also loose in the arm, with the hole in the arm being wallowed out. The front appears to be fine, so I think the arm was damaged before the lower trunnion was replaced. Luckily I have a couple parts cars and can replace that arm. If one has an original lower trunnion in good shape I'll probably use that also. This is where things get interesting. The left side is the top. The two studs are where the lower braces on the shock mount bolt up. Obviously there was some rust repair here. There is just a piece of sheet metal welded over the area. It's not welded along the bottom edge as you can see in the next photo. The other side is done pretty much the same way. This is the bottom edge. You can also see a reinforced plate welded on. This area, the suspension mount plate or panel, not pointed out as separate from the wheelhouse panel in the TSM, but it IS a separate piece, is thicker than the rest of the body parts and heavy enough to easily weld without causing damage. In this back side photo you can see where it was cut and welded also. Specifically I'm referring to the spot at the bolt hole near the top of the photo. That area normally came down just like the area around the lower bolt hole. Top bolt hole is to front, lower to rear. Both sides are done in a similar manner. Well, there is really no rust anywhere else. The repair where the suspension bolts on (the bolt holes) seems to be reasonably well done and sturdy. The sheet metal cover plates leave me a bit suspicious. I believe I'm going to have to take them off and inspect underneath real good. The repair isn't bad, it's not really a critical area, but what bothers me is that it seems that nothing was done to prevent further corrosion. It should have at least been painted, though I'd have used a rust conversion primer then some undercoating over the area. I'd also have welded the bottom, but maybe they left it that way so moisture could easily drain out. There are a couple small drain holes in the lowest points from the factory. Here's a good view before I took the suspension off. You can see the large stack of washers where the suspension mount plate has been cut down. The weld on the lower edge shows good too. There is also a short stack of alignment shims on both bolts, which is typical. This is the other side, which also has about 1/4" of spacers for alignment on both bolts, with the front bolt having a thick stack (wrapped in masking tape!) due to the cut off area. Again, you can see the welded reinforcement plate. Since there is no center crossmember, just a rather flimsy K brace that bolts to the lower control arm support (you can see the threaded holes in the above photo), these bodies tend to spread over time under the weight of the engine. I will weld an extension under the suspension mounts and run a 3/8" hardened threaded rod (not hardware store all-thread!) through them and a piece of 3/4" pipe cut to the proper width. The TSM doesn't give a width between those lower edges, but does give a width between the inner sides of the suspension bracket and of the width between the insides of the sills (front "frame" rails) just to the rear of the suspension brackets. Once the pipe is at the proper width the threaded rod will be used to pull the sides in and keep them there. I've done this on a couple other 61-63 Americans and it works well. Above you can see the K brace with the slotted holes on each end. The large, thick washers have tapered holes that match the tapered shoulder of the bolts. The holes are slotted because the lower arm mounts move when shims are added/removed for front end alignment. You can see that the washers have "teeth" and "bite" into the K brace, but over 20+ years this is just not enough to keep the body from eventually spreading. Mine's really not bad with just 1/4" of shims on each side, but pulling it back in that 1/2" will ensure that it lasts a lot longer and front end alignment won't change as much over time. If the damage turns out to be real bad after I remove those covering plates I may end up replacing the front suspension with a Mustang II type, but I don't think it will come to that. Even if I do I may just change the lower arms (I'd use a lower arm crossmember, not strut rod). But the preference is to keep the original suspension, or something similar. TomJ and I have had discussions about using some dirt track suspension arms on this body. I'm planning on making a diagram of the front suspension with dimensions so I can better look into that. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Here are the springs after I took them out. All I did was make hooks from some 3/16" bar stock I had lying around. The rear end was on jack stands, the front on the ground. The springs weren't compressed all the way. When the springs came out and fell to the floor they "popped" sideways. There was no chance the hooks would come loose, but I will have to be careful taking them loose. Will probably use my brother's front end loader (under bucket) and hold the springs down, then move as I let the bucket up just in case one wants to fly away. Can do this away from cars and buildings! This is why most don't like messing with these springs. I typically use 1/16" thick flat stock 5/16" wide to make the hooks. The flat hooks tend to "bite" into the curved holes in the spring seat "ears" and prevent this sideways popping. I didn't have any bar stock handy and wanted to get the springs out that day (28 January). Compressed coil springs are dangerous!! Rear axle. Note the new long studs and the helper spring shocks. The shocks will go for sure! I'm debating on getting air springs and removing one or two leafs (or not...) or getting a half leaf overload spring. I've used the half leaf overload springs on these cars in the past with great results. Stiffens the rear suspension without making it hard. The leafs just bolt to the long rear half of the original leaf spring. The Hellwig 550 is all that's needed (https://www.hellwigproducts.com/product-list/helper-springs/), but there are several similar kits that are cheaper. Most of the cheaper ones state 1000-1500 pound increases, but I think they are very optimistic! The other thing that is "wrong" with the car is the gas tank and fuel pump. It has what appears to be a 10-15 gallon plastic fuel cell suspended under the trunk floor in place of the original fuel tank. I might just leave it, but will have to put an actual fuel filler neck on the left side. One of the previous owners just cut a large round hole in the trunk floor and filled it from the large cap for inserting anti-slosh foam! It has no foam. I certainly don't want to move everything in the trunk and fill the tank from a 5-6" hole in the floor though! Hopefully the tank on one of my parts cars will be usable. If not I will likely use a 16 gallon 64-68 Mustang tank. Easy enough to weld the original filler hole up and add one to the side of a new tank. There is also an electric fuel pump. At least the pump is mounted in the back near the tank! In the above photo you can also see the electric trunk lock solenoid. A previous owner removed the outer lock and Rambler emblem and filled the holes. I think I'll be drilling those back out and removing the electric trunk release. In a convertible the safest place to leave something is in the trunk where it can't be seen or easily got to. An electric release on the dash pretty much negates that, just cut the top and press the button!
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Frank Swygert
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CamJam
Moderator Group Joined: Jan/04/2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 6553 |
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Wow, I can't believe how long the front springs were on those early Americans!
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'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST '69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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They are about 20" tall unloaded. I'll try to remember to measure these when I get them unhooked. They are 10-3/8" tall loaded (installed) with a 95# per inch rate. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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In a couple posts above I posted photos of the rusted areas around the lower suspension mounts. Yesterday I took a couple hours to remove the welded on repair plates and see what was underneath. I didn't think the covered areas were repaired properly, and I was right! Some material was cut out, but they really were just covers. I took them off with a grinder weakening the welds then a cold chisel. More grinding to remove the weld and even up the holes for welding a properly fitted plate. I have some 1/16" (16 gauge) plate that I'll be using. AMC used 18 gauge (1/20" or 0.05") for their bodies, but this area is thicker. The cover patches were only 20 gauge (3/80" or 0.0375"). Photos below of cleaned up areas and one 16 gauge patch ready for welding (haven't made the other yet). I guess no one figured out why the site posts photos upside down sometimes? Passenger side above Drivers side Passenger side patch clamped in place. Didn't have time to start welding, and only have two small vice-grips to clamp on, so didn't make a plate for the driver's side... which will be a bit harder.
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Oh, I pulled the rear drums off while I was there. New everything! Brake shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, and springs. No self adjusters, but would be easy to add. I'm still planning on using disc brakes all the way around. Anyone interested in new rear brakes for a 61-63 American? Should fit 58-63 also. |
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Frank Swygert
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