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javtopgun Help Needed

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SC397 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: javtopgun Help Needed
    Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 8:48am
Heya SC397 , got a quick question , i recently had a 343 1968 javelin rebuilt , 30 over bore 480 lift comp cam alum edelbrock performer intake , alum 401 performer 60119 edelbrock heads egge pistons stock crank all machine work done ( 8 week was the turn around ) . Had an avs2 edelbrock 600cfm carb on it but ran very bad , subsequently 2 other edelbrock 4 bbl carbs on it and also ran slow . The only carb that ran good on the upper end of the rpm range was the stock afb 500 cfm ( how or why i dont know) , What hp should this thang be making ? In short this motor will not even lay rubber down , not even during brake torqueing . What the blank is the problem with this thang at low rpm's , i was there when the cam was installed and it was installed at the center dot not retarted or adv. marks. I also have several other issues that the builder will not stand behind his warrenty so now im out 12,000 dollars and have a pile for a motor . Wish i had knew of you before i made this MAJOR mistake . What could i possible do to correct this engine to perform the way it should since the builder wont honor his warranty . Plz give me some ideal what to look at or direction to go in figuring this out . went in debt for 5 years for this and got cheated in the process . im sure you know the builder i got scammed by thats why i have not mentioned his Co. Be ware out there folks of this AMC grifter ! Any help here would be a god send at this point ! 

 Again thanks Ramzilla , im sure there are many people on here that could figure this out but there ARE many issues going on with this engine that arnt rite and the builder refuses to correct anything or even look at it as he has ducked my emails and calls and txt for a month now untill yesterday when i asked for my money back and said im sueing him . Im sure the valve geometry is not rite and at one point it broke rocker arm stud and the head gasket , possible gaskets , seep down the sides of the block , he delivered it with a spun cam barring the first attempt witch i had him take it back and replace cam , and barring while i was there and on and on and on . Once it started costing him money he stopped taking my calls email and txt . Seem his full warranty as he stated when he wanted my build and whats on his website dont apply when it get into his pocket . Here is an intresting fact . When it broke the rocker stud , he was paid to remove and rebuild the motor to produce 360hp or better then reinstall , he said for me to remove the motor and send it to him . i live in an apt. , for a broken rocker arm stud which i found and replaced and under warranty drove back to him to replace all the roller rockers that did not fit properly , they jam up on the stud if they came loose ! guess what came very loose ( these even had the jam nut ) ! Also one other thing i had to take it to a transmission place cuz the the fly wheel came loose and was sounding like rods were banging . Also he said remove motor and send it to him . Now ,all this with other stuff less than 2500 miles and three months . if you want to know who , P/ message me . 




Edited by SC397 - Aug/05/2021 at 8:55am
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SC397 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 8:54am
Some basic questions:
Is your car a automatic or stick shift?
What is your rear end gear ratio?
What type of distributor do you have?
Did the builder change the push rods after you found the broken rocker arm stud?

I probably would not have used a Edelbrock Performer to match with the rest of the engine myself.
I would have used a Air Gap or a Torker.
Edelbrock carbs are ok for some applications but a Holley would have performed better in your case.


Edited by SC397 - Aug/05/2021 at 8:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 9:20am
Other questions:
What fuel are you using?
What is you initial and total timing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigbad69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 9:41am
In another post you talked about a Pertronix conversion. Are you still using it and which one is installed?. Your AMX will have a resistance wire feeding the coil primary. The Series I Pertronix will work with that reduced coil voltage. The Series II will also work with reduced voltage, but prefers full 12V. The Series III must have full 12V.

If you are running a Series III through the resistance wire, you will be getting erratic ignition and it could explain your performance issues (at least in part).
69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 10:41am

Just wanted to add the subject of fuel and the effects of change. These are numbers are based on 100% VE gasoline motor.

Gasoline has 124,000 BTU/g

E10 has 116,000 BTU/g

HP x .50 / 6.25 = g fuel per hour

A 350 HP motor will need 28 gallons of gasoline per hour.

A 350 HP motor will need 30 gallons of E10 per hour. Now you have to take into account the lost BTU. 350 – 7% = 325.5 HP. But lost BTU means lost thermal efficiency and lost VE. That will be 5% per degree of timing reduction. E10 will likely need a reduced timing of 2° to 4° for best burn on a motor built for gasoline. Let’s say 3°.

325.5 – 15% = 276.25 HP

Your 350 HP motor is now a 276.25 HP motor, just by changing fuel.

You cannot blame the engine builder if you did not request the engine to be built for the fuel you use.

Everyone rebuilding their stock motors because they don’t perform like they used to. If it’s not burning oil, the lost power and poor mileage is likely the fuel.

You can get this back by building for E10 if that’s what you want. But it’s not stock parts and will be a more expensive build.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javtopgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 5:40pm
First , SC397 , It is a 3 speed auto m-11 cast iron borg warner , has been rebuilt 9000 miles ago by a old school guy who use to do these trannys back in the day found him in st louis ( use to wrench on my older brother car in 64 a 64 ss chevy malibu , Mike christionson . GM repair . Did a great job 
 3:15 rear end , jurys out on if posi , use to lay dual rubber ( be for this motor ) 50% of the time ??i
The builder put in an old stock distributor which i have found that the vac. adv. was bad in it , having to reset point every 3 or 4 times driving it and i suspect the points cam is wore out . Pertronx was first installed but burnt out in 2 miles . Found that my alt ( was original , they never die lol ) was puting 18 volts to the batt. BUT only 5 volts to the + coil , The jumper to coil for 12 volts for the pertonx ( instead of the factor 10.5 that is supplied ) So i have changed out the Crazy 18 volt alt ?? and also the voltage reg and the starter solonoid . It also messed with my elec fuel pump , Would shut off for 2 or 3 min , most time at a stop light . lol .. Now all is well there 10.5 v to + coil and 14.2 to batt . And also replaced the fuel pump with a 5 to 9 lb pressure .  No on push rods , non seemed to be bent . The rockers used wher ford 302 roller rockers but the reason the one broke was it came loose and got low enough on the stun to get to the nut prtion and the clearance boring in rocker , the nut portion of stud jamed it the rocker clearance bore for the stud. Had all rockers changed over to comp cam roller rocker that look like normal rockers and dont have any clearance problems with the stud nut . 

Fuel is 91 octane and lucas fuel booster so if my math is right about 96 97 octane 
Has an edelbroch performer kinda semi high rise alum intake , about 1"1/2 taller than the stock intake was.
At the time i got it back it was , as i recall 6 degrees btdc But i had to back it of just a little due to elevation here in vegas . so i say 5btdc it would spark knock at high r;s at end of second gear 1st was fine all thru 6000 rpms and 3rd gear also thru 6000 rpms 

Ithink i answered all the questions . if i missed any plz let me know !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javtopgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 5:51pm
I would like to add that the old eng 52,000 mile was for sure up to about 4500 rpms way faster than this one , the only reason this engs would beat the old one ( total stock ) is because of the 6000 rpm range . In and 1/8th mile . the old 280 horse motor would have beat the new one by and its a guess a car length . The old girl was VERY quick from off line to pushing 5200 rpms .  Im mean it would beat new camero v8s un modified . It was freaky !! Most people could not believe how well it ran at 280 hp and 51 at that time Years old !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javtopgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 6:19pm
Oh , The first cam was a stage one and tho it spun a barring , it had no power upper r's or lower r's . The changed cam is a comp cam 480 lift intake and exhaust  i really dont know the duration . Push rods i believe 8.370 , stock was 8.2 something .. Per summit it should .100 taller for the 401 alum edelbrock performer heads . I have no ideal if he used an adj push rod to measure out the geometry . Before the rocker arm change , and i called him on this sounded like a singer sewing machine . These . sound much better . Trader , No dis respect but seeping head gaskets ARe to blamed on the builder , loose fly wheel after a week driving it is the builder and a junk dis. is the builder , rocker arms coming loose that have jam nuts is the builder . The three times i was there watching the build i never seen him use a torque wrench on any thing .  May be why all this is coming loose . I do want your input trader cuz im sure you know more than i will ever as im a back yard machanic and old school . Thanks and hope you continue to help . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 6:26pm
Hurts to say it but 50% plausible you are another victim of mainstream hop up part marketing.

Note basically all mainstream parts slingers don't sell hop up plans, they just sell individual parts.

From all what you described, IMO, now you have a mismatched combination of parts.

Hint: it's not your engine or the brand name of your car -you just have a bad combination of aftermarket parts.

Resimplified, very likely, now you have a parts combination that's begging for a lower axle ratio.

Until you deal with that issue, the car will be a 'dog' when you stomp on the gas pedal.

So many cases like this -you are not alone with this problem.

Please feel free to contact me for free advice based on 40 years experience dealing with this issue.

443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javtopgun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 6:27pm
 for got answer a question 
Total timing was 25 but with the very slight back off ( 16th inch ) cant answer as i have not a timing lite being old school its by ear and driving . so i retarded timing just enough to eliminate the slight spark knock at about 5400 rpm in second gear .
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