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IVR |
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Mr AMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/02/2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Posted: Jan/02/2013 at 3:05pm |
I'm assuming my IVR is bad if 12 volts are read on both the 12v side, as well as the 5v side? Should 12v be coming off the ground side of the IVR when tested to the car body? All cleaned. Both gauges move when grounded. Thx in advance. If bad, I'll try one of those solid state ones. 1969 AMX 140 speedometer.
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bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6668 |
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How are you measuring it? Your measurements suggest the IVR is stuck on. If that were the case, it
is likely both the temp and fuel gauges are pinned at full scale most of the time.
The IVR is basically an on-off switch. When on, the output is at 12V. When off, it's at 0V. It typically oscillates at about 2 cycles per second. Depending upon your measurement technique, results can vary, but you will never see 5V on the output; that is an average based on the duty cycle. |
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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Mr AMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/02/2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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With the ground wire off, I measured the IN to Grd, 12v. Then OUT to Grd. Again 12v. Yes, the coolant is pinned. I know the fuel gauge once worked in another vehicle years ago. Now a diff tank/sender. Fuel moves up when grounded. I didn't have the fuel hooked up when the coolant pinned. Would it be correct to have the IVR 12v instrument panel pin wired to the fuse panel, 10a fuse, switched?
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Peter Jan
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/10/2010 Location: Belgium -Europe Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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Don't have my manual handy, but I think it runs of a 4A fuse, the smallest fuse on the fuse panel. An IVR is a very crude way of regulating. I changed to a solid state regulator long time ago. First one piece but it didn't held up in warm weather. They get warmer the more current they have to deliver and the more volts they have to drop and stop working when too hot. They resume once cooled down. I than used one for each gauge (a bit of trace cutting and some extra litlle wires involved) and that has been reliable since. They just get warm now, not hot. |
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Mr AMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/02/2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Sounds like I need a smaller fuse, new fuel sender, new IVR
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bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6668 |
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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Peter Jan
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/10/2010 Location: Belgium -Europe Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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[QUOTE=bigbad69]The solid state IVRs that use a linear regulator (typically the 7805 3 pin regulator) will get hot because they are very inefficient. The designs using switching regulators are much better, stay cooler, but are more complex.
[/QUOTE True, a bit unefficient, especially when they have to regulate down from ~14,5 Volt with engine running, but if their duty is split over two 7805CV, there really is no chance for overheating whatsoever. I remember I left the choke in, because it already dropped a bit of tension and made work a bit easier on the regulators. IVR's do the job too, but with electronic regulator(s), the gauge reading is always spot on. IVR's can be a bit off depending on temperature and mechanical tolerances (no two IVR's are the same), that's why I choose for an 'electronic' solution. Plus I'm an electronics guy and sometimes can't leave well enough alone . |
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Rebel Machine
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Western Il Status: Offline Points: 5122 |
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The instrument regulator is kind of misleading description. It's not a regulator in the common sense of the word. A true regulator will keep a constant voltage on it's output. What the instrument regulator does is pulse the battery voltage by opening and closing contacts. If you take one apart you'll see there is a heating element wound around a bi-metallic strip. It will deflect when heated, which opens the contacts. This stops current flowing through the element allowing the bi-metallic strip to cool, which closes the contacts again. This cycle happens over and over at a rate of about once or twice per second.
The good thing about that is if there's an overload condition (too little resistance) the time the contacts are closed is extremely short because the element will get hotter and cause more immediate and longer deflection. Using a true voltage regulator, either liner or switching, is a mistake. If there is an overload condition these regulators will supply as much current as they are designed for which could cause wiring damage. -Steve- |
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bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6668 |
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The advantage of the 7805 regulator is it's a simple solution that can be done by most car guys (or gals) for a few dollars. The disadvantage is it's not a great solution and may fail, so it may have to be done several times on the same car. The mechanical IVRs (really a current limiter rather than a voltage regulator) were a simple and robust design that worked for decades. As Rebel Machine pointed out, they have natural short circuit protection and they are tolerant to reverse voltage. They are somewhat inaccurate by their nature, but the gauges they operate are also based on the same bi-metal technology, so the whole system is not particularly accurate, but good enough to serve the purpose. The only real problem with the mechanical IVR 40 to 50 years later is their availability, especially the ones that are built into the gauge. |
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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Mr AMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/02/2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Maybe I should use the Radio Shack 7805 as a tester. If it works, then purchase the solid state. If it doesn't, then I only lost a couple of bucks and gained yet another issue...or question.
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