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232 new lifters old cam |
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jonb79
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/27/2011 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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Posted: Jan/26/2023 at 2:51pm |
I have a motor that I pieced back together, while doing a simple overhaul I ended up replacing the lifters because I had to use a drift to pound them out of the block. Well I had some issue getting the carb tuned right so it took some time to get it running right. eventually the motor was running good and then it developed a lifter tick, the tick didn’t seem to get any louder, so I just assumed it was a collapsed lifter I just installed. One day I had to move the car and I lost all power and heard a lot of compression. Right away I thought I dropped the valve or a seat came out and it’s hanging the valve open, well today I decided to remove the head and I inspected the cylinder head and found nothing really wrong, I moved on to looking at the lifters. The first one closest to the front of the car had a lot of wear and that’s where the ticking was coming from, a few other lifter had noticeable wear but not as much as the front one. I did use assembly lube and checked my oil pressure. I did visibly checked the cam when I assembled it , I don’t recall seeing any abnormal wear. Is there a break in period for new lifters? Or should I have used an additive? Would this wreck the cam?
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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If the lifter is that badly worn then the camshaft lobe is worn also.
Several lifters worn indicates that you need to install a new camshaft and lifters. Hammering out lifters can damage the lifter bores, they should be inspected. I soak stuck lifters in transmission fluid, take out the internals and will try heat and rotating them to loosen. Pounding a lifter out would be the last resort. A small mark in a lifter bore can be polished out with no ill effects, but vertical gouges to the bore means bushing the lifter bores. Excessive clearances of the lifter bores can result in oil pressure loss, also requiring bushing lifter bores.
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jonb79
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/27/2011 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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Thanks, I did have to pound out a few, I thought cleaning out the lifter bore would be good enough, I know they have lifter bore hones, that would have been a better choice.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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If you cleaned it out with emery cloth/fine sand paper you should have been good. Any time you replace lifters you should go through the cam/lifter break-in procedure. That includes using a high pressure additive or special break-in oil. The lifter face has to "wear in" to the cam lobes. If you'd done that from the start you'd probably have been alright. Now the cam lobes, especially the first one, may be damaged/badly worn. On the bright side, now you can order a new Isky 256 Supercam and gain a little more power!
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Frank Swygert
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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That cam could be completely shot and be eating the lifters or your engine oil might not have enough ZDDP for proper break-in.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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jonb79
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/27/2011 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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Thanks for the info, not breaking these lifters and the not having the zinc additive in the oil must of done it. The combination of getting the carb tuned up didn’t help either. I must of had about 10 hours of run time on this motor when this happened, I did clean those bores out with a greenie and a brush so lesson learnt.
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jonb79
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/27/2011 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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Question on that isky cam, would I have to change any of the valve train for that? This 232 motor has non adjustable rockers and stock springs.
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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For a stock setup 0.460" lift is what most state is it. The Isky cam falls within that, though not knowing the mileage on your motor, a new set of stock springs may be a good idea.
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 430 |
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There is a real advantage to making sure the carburetor and ignition are functional before an engine is even taken apart. That way situations like you encountered don't occur. The focus seems to go to the engine block/heads and associated parts, the carb and ignition a much later thought. And if they are not established as functioning properly there is a lot of low RPM cranking that doesn't provide oil to the cam/lifters. I've done that myself unfortunately. How were your cam bearings. They can be a considerable loss of oil pressure if worn.
In general, anytime a new cam/lifters are used: Used CAM specific assembly lube. If the valves need adjustment or you have other reasons to rotate the assembly leave the oil pan (or intake as applicable) off as long as possible. That way you can reapply CAM assembly lube - AGAIN, after the parts have rotated. Use a break in oil, or at least a decent oil that SHOULD have higher ZDDP levels (this is always a debate point). If using a Zinc additive thoroughly mix it with the oil before pouring it in the engine. Whatever zinc rich oil I use I leave it in far beyond just the break in. There is an argument that you want to get the metal particles out of the engine from the break in process. I get it but ask, "What then is the oil filter for???" Yea, if you are spending MANY THUOSANDS of dollars on the engine the cost is minimal for an oil/filter change but to those like myself (and seemingly the OP here) who are doing "hone & lap - ring & bearing" type overhauls (maybe $200) the $40 for an immediate oil change is a large part of the cost. Another option is to drain the oil into a spotless container and let it settle. Then drag a powerful magnet through it and use a sucking device for any obvious nonferrous metals, then reinstall the zinc rich oil. Make sure the carbs are primed with fuel (a good reason to use an electric fuel pump), the choke set, the ignition roughly timed. I like to leave the distributor out but wired in the car, turn on the ignition and spin the shaft to ensure that spark is occurring before I install it. They say to run the engine at 2,000-2,500 PRM for 20 minutes but longer doesn't harm anything. I think the last engine I ran it for 40 minutes. If you are using a much stronger valve spring it seems wise to use the weaker stock springs for the break in and while a lot of work (but far less than replacing the cam) swap the springs later. Lastly, I in no way advise this but when I was young I had a cam and a marginal set of lifters. Someone gave me another cam (slightly better) and an additional set of lifters. I just randomly selected the 16 best lifters (Ford 260) and used them. I had 20,000 miles on that motor when I sold the car and never had a problem. I guess sometimes we get lucky.
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'63 American Hardtop
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