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Look what followed me home -- 61 American convert!

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2024 at 10:32am
Time/money progress so far:

13 March – 2.0 hrs – Designed front disc brake brackets (11” Honda Accord rotors and calipers)

26 March – 2.0 hrs – Worked on front disc brake brackets and “Shelby Drop” upper control arm brackets

31 March – 2.5 hrs -- $66.19 – Tweaked “Shelby Drop” brackets. Made adjustments to front disc brake bracket drawings. Ordered rear disc brackets in 3/8” steel, ordered “Shelby Drop” bracket sets for both sides.


66 hours $4548.67 (as of 31 March 2024)

Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARBED Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/01/2024 at 3:40pm
System looks great. Love the plywood bracketry but glad you're going steel since plywood wouldn't hold up unless you coated with a good quality epoxy.Wink Maybe I missed it my brain doesn't operate like it used to, what rotors are you using?,on old AMC worn out disc rotor hub assembles I found the 90s Jeep Cherokee rotor can fit over the AMC hubs as long as you machine the rotor off the hub. same inner dimensions of Jeep inner top hat. and around 1/8 off the hub mounting surface will center the rotor to the same centerline as the original. 
59 American 2dr S/W. 70 390 AMX. 70 232 javelin. Kelvinator fridge ice cold beer storage.
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/02/2024 at 7:02am
I'm using 1999-2010 Honda Accord rotors and calipers. The rotors are 11.10" in diameter. There is also a 10.25" rotor, which would be better for the little American -- the 11" just does fit with the suspension. I might have to grind the front arm a little on the lower outer end, but not enough to worry about -- maybe 1/8" off the corner. The 260mm rotors (10.25"... actually 10.2362") are for manual trans cars, the 282mm (11.1024") are for automatic trans Accords with V6. Four cylinder models use a four lug rotor. I decided to try the Honda front brakes when researching a good caliper for rear disc brakes with the correct bolt pattern. The outer edge of the drum hubs need to be turned down slightly to fit the Honda rotors, but only a little.

Tweaked the drawing and made another plywood mock-up. Fits perfectly! Will be sending the drawing to Send-Cut-Send to have some 3/8" steel plates made.
Frank Swygert
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/02/2024 at 6:25pm
A little more progress! Going slow, but any progress is good! Once all the parts come in I'll be able to complete the front suspension.

As noted above there are two different Honda front rotors, 11" and 10.25". I may get a 10.25" rotor and make a bracket for them. Stick shift Accords are rare in salvage yards though. There is also an 11.8" rotor used on LX models with six speed manual trans. That definitely won't fit the little American! If there was enough interest I could tweak the brackets, just need a rotor and caliper (or confirm the calipers are the same). After 2010 some of the sizes changed. Not sure what other dimensions changed, but 1999-2010 parts will be around for quite some time yet.

01 April – 1.0 hrs – Tweaked front disc brake brackets. Made new plywood mock-up and confirmed new drawings are good to go!

02 April – 0.5 hrs -- $46.37 – Ordered one pair of front disc brake brackets.


67.5 hours $4395.04 (as of 02 April 2024)



Edited by farna - Apr/02/2024 at 6:38pm
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2024 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

The current plan is to use air springs like TomJ did on his roadster.


Some notes on mine: about 35 psi front, 17 rear. The pump I use is a modern dual-action pump, very common now, about 25 bucks.



The biggest downside is they have about 4" of travel total. And are extremely progressive; nicely soft static, but the more you compress the stiffer they get. They can be real butt-whackers.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2024 at 2:04pm
Frank the rear disc bracket looks just great. Its so nice to have options these days.

The little Honda probably weights more than the American!

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2024 at 2:33pm
Average weight of a 1999-2010 Honda Accord V6 equipped sedan is 4,000 pounds. Curb weight (no driver or passenger) of the 61 convertible with auto trans is 3,000 pounds (2866 with manual trans). So yeah, the brakes are going to be overkill! The 10.25" rotors would be way more than needed, really. 79-83 AMC rotors are 10.82", so the 11.10" aren't much bigger.

About the air springs.... how does your car ride with 35 psi in the front? Is it stiff? I know you rally the car. Is that the pressure you race at or the average pressure you try to keep? I don't mind if the ride ends up a bit firm, but I don't want it to be hard. I may have to re-think the air springs...
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2024 at 7:54am
Look what just came in! Front disc brake brackets. Hopefully I have a chance to put at least one on this weekend. If not, one day next week...




Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2024 at 3:20pm
Got another Send-Cu-Send package!! Shelby drop brackets (for 58-63 American) are on left and right, and the four spacers go behind them. There are two 1/4" thick and two 3/8" thick brackets, spacers are 1/4". The original spacer for the upper control arm bar is 9/16" thick. A 3/8" and 1/4" bracket will be stacked and spot welded together. The upper hole is drilled to bolt onto the car where the original bolted in (upper is the larger hole). I'll need shorter bolts. The lower holes are 1" lower (center to center of holes). They will be tapped for a 1/2"-20 (fine thread) screw to hold the bar to the car. There is 5/8" of material to tap. which is more than enough. A 1/4" spacer goes between bracket and body where the original spacer was. There is a recess in the body for the spacer. A short spacer makes it easier to install the bracket flat like the original bar was. I might tack the spacer in place also. I'll run a bolt through the holes and tighten to make sure everything is properly aligned before welding. 

For those who don't know, the "Shelby drop" was discovered by none other than Carroll Shelby of Ford Cobra and Mustang fame. He discovered that dropping the inner pivot of the early Mustangs greatly increased handling by raising the roll center. This places the upper arms at a slight incline rather than parallel with the lower arm(s). This moves the roll center lower and greatly improves handling. See https://www.ramblerlore.com/AMC/Suspension-1950-1963-small-highperf/index.html#GEOM for a detailed write-up by Tom Jennings of the affects on the 58-63 American chassis (and 50-55 Nash Rambler) -- scroll down to "Shelby drop".


Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/10/2024 at 3:46pm
I've been reconsidering using air springs on the convertible. There are some advantages, but Tom says ride isn't one of them! It's a bit stiff and he says he wouldn't use them on his road car. Ride is stiff enough it gets old on a longer trip (say a couple hours in the car). I think I'll see what one of the air ride companies have to say about it before making a decision. I need to do something pretty soon to get the car off jack stands!
Frank Swygert
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