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Swap a MFI AMC 2.5 into a Spirit with iron duke? |
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BSMet94
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/18/2009 Location: Pasadena, CA Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: May/17/2022 at 10:51pm |
Has anyone done this swap? Tempting because there are so many remanufactured Jeep 2.5s out there, and it’s got more AMC DNA to it!
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nudhistbudhist
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2019 Location: AB, Can Status: Online Points: 178 |
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I don't think the 2.5 is as popular as the 4.0 swap. To me, and I could be wrong, it seems like the same amount of work for less hp
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Greg
1980 AMC Spirit GT 4.0/ax15 swap Ford 8.8 |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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If you use the last model Jeep 2.5L EFI system it will be more power than the carbed Iron Duke, less than a 4.0L. But you also get a lot better drivability and it will almost bolt in. The mounts are slightly different, but I haven't had them side by side to compare. Look the parts up on some Jeep sites -- the Iron Duke was used in CJs and the early AMC/Jeep 2.5L with carb was too. Keep in mind that the AMC/Jeep 2.5L uses a 60 degree Chevy V-6/I-4 bolt pattern though. The Iron Duke used a SBC pattern up to 1982, 83 and later use the smaller V-6/I-4 pattern. 83 models used in CJs and Concord/Spirit may still have the SBC pattern, but 84+ Jeeps (and 96-02 Dakota pickups) use the small pattern. So you will have to change transmissions.
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Frank Swygert
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BSMet94
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/18/2009 Location: Pasadena, CA Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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OK, thank you! That’s what I thought, that I’d probably need to change the transmission as well. The target car is an ‘83 Spirit with the 2.5 Iron Duke.
Great replies, thanks again guys!
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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1983 AMC Spirit w/Pontiac 2.5L - 82 hp @ 3800, 125 ft/lbs @ 2600 rpm 1996 Jeep Wrangler w/AMC 2.5L - 116hp @ 5200 rpm, 137 ft/lbs @ 3600 rpm Power seems like a lot more, but look at the rpm data. I'm really surprised that the AMC engine turns that much more, since it has a slightly longer stroke and smaller bore (stroke is 0.20" longer -- just under 1/4"). So there will be a drivability improvement, but not a lot more power. A bit of a mileage improvement also, due to the greater efficiency of EFI. Might be getting back to "is this a worthwhile swap" though. If the 2.5L Poncho is well worn and you have access to an inexpensive AMC 2.5L and (RWD) trans, sure. Otherwise, you're not getting a whole lot for the effort. A 4.0L will be more effort and cost, but a much bigger improvement in power at about the same gas mileage as the carbed 2.5L Poncho. Chrysler had come out with a new four cylinder family in 94 for their FWD cars, and dropped production of the older 2.5L. They stated at the time that the AMC four was more suitable for a truck than the new 2.4L, but the specs are nearly the same, with the 2.4L Chrysler having a bit longer stroke. The new engine was optimized for FWD though, and may have used a different trans bolt pattern, so using the RWD configured AMC engine made more economical sense -- either that or drop the AMC engine for the Chrysler. If the Chrysler engine could have economically been easily used in a RWD configuration I think dropping the AMC would have been the wise choice, unless there wasn't enough production capacity to build enough of the new engines for cars (and mini vans) and trucks.
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Frank Swygert
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881 |
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In 1987 you could get a 2.5l with an AW4 2WD in a Comanche PU. 5 SPD manual was also an option. This would likely be the best donor combination, if you can find them.
I owned a 86 4x4 Cherokee with a 2.5l. The 2.5l had more power then the GM V6 regardless of what they had on paper. Drove both and there was no real comparison. Put 320,000 KM on that 2.5l and nothing but routine maintenance. The body gave out, broke the sub frame on a backroad.
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nudhistbudhist
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/13/2019 Location: AB, Can Status: Online Points: 178 |
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Farna, I have great respect for your posts, but is the effort 4.0 vs 2.5 really *that* much more? Given that likely most or all mounts will be different, and admitting my ignorance of iron puke vs 4.2 crissmember, how much EXTRA work are we really talking? In CANADA, given it's a different market, I was able to source a 4.0 and a harness extension easily, and as of 2yrs ago, an ax15 2wd was... interesting to find. We are coming into in Era where, in my experience, "what can I actually find" outweighs "what is best".
Again, your market may vary. I guess all I'm saying is a cherokee 4.0 is more common, 4.2 engine mounts work, and you're only left figuring aw4/ax15 trans mounts (also given MY OPINION), since most other options don't offer longevity To me, all things equal, the Chrysler 2.5 turbo is a much more interesting 4 banger swap, but the obvious problem of that engine was offered as a fwd engine, and what trans would someone mate to it for a rwd application. Knowing that in chev bodies, the 2.2 ecotec (an amazing tuner engine IMO ) has been stuffed into s10 trucks, I would hope there may be an available option As a side note, personally i,n the new Era and considering evolution and keeping amc bodies relevant, I find this discussion very interesting
Edited by nudhistbudhist - May/20/2022 at 10:06pm |
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Greg
1980 AMC Spirit GT 4.0/ax15 swap Ford 8.8 |
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