The Trouble with Trunnions ('61 Amb)

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   (Pardon the Star Trek reference)

Hey folks:

I have little experience with front end work, so I'm trying to do my homework before starting anything. The pictures show the right front of my '61 Ambo, with an obvious problem in the trunnion/kingpin alignment. 

I know this happens a lot on the older AMCs, so my question is, where do I start? In other words, do I just buy upper and lower trunnions, install  them and hope that solves the problem? Following from that, where is the dividing line when you need to replace the kingpin? (I'm sure while I'm at the whole thing all the control arm bushings, etc, should be replaced.)

I have the TSM and have read over that section many times. The one thing I don't understand is the assembly sequence of the kingpin into the control arms. Are the trunnions installed on the kingpin initially, then that assembly gets fastened into the control arms with the external nuts which come with the trunnions?

Sorry for the noob questions. But hey, I'm learning...before last year I'd never installed a timing set or taken heads off, and I've got that under my belt so I'm ready to move on to the next thing.

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cnagorka Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200	Post Options Post Reply Quote cnagorka Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: The Trouble with Trunnions ('61 Amb) Posted: Jan/12/2022 at 7:21pm
	(Pardon the Star Trek reference) Hey folks: I have little experience with front end work, so I'm trying to do my homework before starting anything. The pictures show the right front of my '61 Ambo, with an obvious problem in the trunnion/kingpin alignment. I know this happens a lot on the older AMCs, so my question is, where do I start? In other words, do I just buy upper and lower trunnions, install them and hope that solves the problem? Following from that, where is the dividing line when you need to replace the kingpin? (I'm sure while I'm at the whole thing all the control arm bushings, etc, should be replaced.) I have the TSM and have read over that section many times. The one thing I don't understand is the assembly sequence of the kingpin into the control arms. Are the trunnions installed on the kingpin initially, then that assembly gets fastened into the control arms with the external nuts which come with the trunnions? Sorry for the noob questions. But hey, I'm learning...before last year I'd never installed a timing set or taken heads off, and I've got that under my belt so I'm ready to move on to the next thing.
	1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440

Trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881	Post Options Post Reply Quote Trader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/12/2022 at 9:33pm
	Guessing that upper control arm bushings are shot. But it has to come completely apart at this point. The TSM is good to have but here is a good guide to start: https://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/Suspension-1950-1963-small/index.html

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/12/2022 at 11:21pm
	Spring has to come out first. Don't kill your self (I mean that literally) taking that spring out. The general trick to compressing it is (with all wheels and tires on the car) jack up the opposite corner, high, then press body weight down on the corner to take out. THen attach the spring compressor. It will be 800 - 1000 lbs of force on that compressed spring. A 45 ACP pistol cartridge is about 300 ft/lbs. THe spring has a lot more mass too. It will move in milliseconds without warning. The main problem then is that Rambler springs are large diameter so parts-store compressors don't fit. THe good news is that they have hats with ears specifically for attaching compression tools (really, "hold compressed" tools). Often someone here can lend you one with a deposit (I would require one; they're scarce and expensive. Sorry I don't have one.) of if you're good at fabrication you can weld one up (better know what you are doing).
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

cnagorka Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200	Post Options Post Reply Quote cnagorka Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/13/2022 at 4:12am
	Yep, already familiar with what it takes to get that spring out. Blaser AMC has the original tool available to rent. I bought replacement springs as the ride height is obviously low in front, which complicates things a little as you can't just put the same spring back in without taking it out of the tool. But for this kind of work a hydraulic press is necessary and it's time to get one. Boy what a great web page, the explanation is so much better than I've seen anywhere else, I've bookmarked it and will refer to it a lot. CN
	1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440

rallison203 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/29/2021 Location: WA State, USA Status: Offline Points: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote rallison203 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/14/2022 at 11:33am
	You had me at "The Trouble with Trunions". :) Very good.

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/15/2022 at 9:47pm
	Lol, yeah, no complaints about the trek ref. If only our parts replicated like that. An alternative to a press is to get a chunk of 2 x 6 wood and use the car itself to squash the springs under the sill, to get the hats off and on. There are a few places, on a 63 Classic at least, where its not in the least chancy, nice and square. Jack car up, place spring, wood on top, lower car. In some ways safer than the press, in that the "lever" of the chassis is BROAD and slow (with a floor jack), depending on the tools you have for the press.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/20/2022 at 9:32pm
	If the spring did somehow come loose under the car (highly unlikely!) it would at least be low to the ground when it popped out. A broken leg/ankle is better than a caved in chest/cracked skull! I've used the "car crush" method many times. Put the spring in a press once, decided I didn't like it being up that high getting pressure on it.
	Frank Swygert