63 Classic 196 sputter

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   (196 OHV 3spd Carter WCD 2bbl) Proud Rambler owner/not a mechanic. 
In my previous post I requested your guys’ help regarding the choke heater tube burning inside the exhaust manifold.  So all that was taken care of to include where i think there may have been possible exhaust leaks.  Upon patching that up, I noticed some of my “power” did return - specifically upon acceleration.  However, it still has a distinct  clearly sounding “putt putt putt” when first shifting into any gear (most prominent shifting into first while releasing the clutch) As the car gets up to speed and cruising along, it tends to go but if I try to accelerate more, the “putt putt putt” is still there, albeit a lot quieter than initial acceleration.  I also noticed my “cold start” acceleration is a little bit higher idle than before (about 1 month) comes down with a slight tap of the gas.   

Checked the vacuum hose…looks fine
Tightened the bolts on the intake
Tightened the bolts on the carb base
New plugs/wires
New coil & petronix ignition (about 6 months ago)

Could this be a timing, carb, or (still) an exhaust leak?

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63RumbleRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/06/2021 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote 63RumbleRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 63 Classic 196 sputter Posted: Jan/10/2022 at 10:38pm
	(196 OHV 3spd Carter WCD 2bbl) Proud Rambler owner/not a mechanic. In my previous post I requested your guys’ help regarding the choke heater tube burning inside the exhaust manifold. So all that was taken care of to include where i think there may have been possible exhaust leaks. Upon patching that up, I noticed some of my “power” did return - specifically upon acceleration. However, it still has a distinct clearly sounding “putt putt putt” when first shifting into any gear (most prominent shifting into first while releasing the clutch) As the car gets up to speed and cruising along, it tends to go but if I try to accelerate more, the “putt putt putt” is still there, albeit a lot quieter than initial acceleration. I also noticed my “cold start” acceleration is a little bit higher idle than before (about 1 month) comes down with a slight tap of the gas. Checked the vacuum hose…looks fine Tightened the bolts on the intake Tightened the bolts on the carb base New plugs/wires New coil & petronix ignition (about 6 months ago) Could this be a timing, carb, or (still) an exhaust leak?

63RumbleRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/06/2021 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote 63RumbleRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/10/2022 at 10:41pm
	Also, I just recently added 4oz of Marvel Mystery oil to 10 gal of gas, changed the fuel filter as well. Seemed to get a little better-but still there. Fuel pump looks fine. Gas is getting into the carb

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 12:04am
	PUTT PUTT that gets louder on accell is often exhaust leak. THe joint where the pipe attaches to the manifold is a common source. Back up a bit ax describe the overall situation -- how long have you had this? Has it been running well and on the road? What's is maintenance history? Did you just buy it? Is it a "barn find" -- parked unrunning for years and recently revived? If it's the latter, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE the gasoline in the tank. Gasoline over a year old will, absolutely will, ruin the engine. It is indeed truly inconvenient to drain, drop, clean out the tank, but absolutely necessary. It WILL cause the valves to stick in short order, then bend all the pushrods. ANd the head will ahve to come off for teardown/rebuild. But we'll need to know more about the overall situation. Cars are systems...
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

63RumbleRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/06/2021 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote 63RumbleRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 12:23am
	Thanks Tom! I have had this car for about a year now…3rd owner meticulously cared for both before and now. The car was a runner for the previous owner. The car has been running fine for me up until the issues described. I do all of the maintenance. At least what I am capable of. Torqued the head bolts immediately after purchase. Changed the oil, plugs wires etc over the past year. This car stay garaged, and seemed to be that way prior to me getting it. I have put about 200 miles on it since owning it.

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 12:47am
	OK GOOD! That's great to hear. I always fear the old bard find and old gas story... lol. Well then you're probably in good shape. ID one problem at a time, fix that, then the next. Both of my 195.6's, the stupid exhaust pipe loosens at the manifold. I've considered leaving a 9/16" wrench under the hood for convenience in it's weekly tightening. I'm sure mine is caused by "incorrect" tailpipe system. THe engine wiggles around and vibration loosens the bolts. Mine, on the '60, the front-most nut backs off, like enough to fall off onto the ground. I know it's from the kludgey exhaust. Carburetors require seasonal fiddling to always be correct. But once warmed up they generally behave year round. So in your mind try to separate "cold start" issues from "warmed up" issues. Warmed up are easiest, since you can get it warmed up, and idling etc, adjust to suit. "Cold start" only lasts the few minutes and initial choke settings are ephemeral. I'd do warmed-up first.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

vinny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837	Post Options Post Reply Quote vinny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 5:12am
	I was going to suggest new condenser until reading about the Petronix. You've got the full 14 volts to the coil? Put a volt meter to it when the car is running. Interestingly I was figuring that my first Petronix set was firing between the contacts in the cap. I don''t know if it was my fault or theirs but they were very good about sending me a new set and it has been good ever since. I guess I have been lucky with my fuel tank in the 64. It has never been removed or cleaned yet and there were a few years of not driving it. I exchanged the 196 for a 232. With this covid mess it also only got a couple of runs last summer, just enough to add a bit more fuel to it. I have always stored it with very little fuel in the tank if that makes a difference.

63RumbleRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/06/2021 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote 63RumbleRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 6:51am
	Thank you Tom! You are right that pesky front most bolt seemed to be the culprit before, and might have backed off again. I will check this out later on today after work - I put a layer of permatex around the "gasket" to assist with any micro leaks- as kind of an additional precaution (I know that there isnt supposed to be a gasket for this system, but the previous owner had one, so I tried to find a replacement one that fit - or at least with the help of the fine folks at Napa). Did the soapy water test, and seemed to get it. But maybe there is still something leaking there. Thank you for the carb info as well!

63RumbleRambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Aug/06/2021 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote 63RumbleRambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 7:02am
	Hi Vinny, thank you! I will check that out today as well. I installed a new coil, petronix, plugs and wires and just that everything worked correctly...its seems to be doing so, but shoot i should have checked that out! Luckily the fuel tank looked good on my end (I think), i just changed the fuel filter out this past weekend, and it was in surprisingly good shape - no particles or pieces that I could see. So one less thing to worry about...for now! I have definitely thought about the 232 route...I dont know if this is something i am capable of doing, but I would be lying if i said i didnt let my mind go down that rabbit hole. Just the amount of aftermarket capability is enough to push me that direction. This 196 is definitely a faithful little engine...but it would be nice to give her something to help wake up a bit. I know this is probably located in a different posting, but are you aware of swapping out the 196 with a 232 and keeping the column shifter (manual)? I think the T96 is a little weak for that motor - but something about that 3 on the tree!

vinny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837	Post Options Post Reply Quote vinny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/11/2022 at 11:31am
	I couldn't keep my T96 going. For some reason one of the teeth ahead of the snap ring on the tail shaft would break and all the stuff would come forward during a shift. I changed out the column and brake pedal too. All that stuff was available back in the early eighties. A few years ago I put in the 232 but didn't know enough at the time to put in the correct bell housing and torque converter. I now have the parts plus an overhauled transmission. I figured I could wait until my junkyard M35 fails but it just keeps on going. I guess if I had a shell of a 63 to 66 I could put in my running gear stuff and have another car but just don't have the time for that. Make sure you torque those axle nuts. I stripped a hub on one way back when.