196 Engine ID, What Do I Have?

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   I'm working on a 1964 American 440 convertible with a 196 but I'm running into things that don't line up with a 64 engine. Note: I've moved this post from another members post.
1. Stamped 6U9C16    The U might be half of a 0, it's not a full U so my guess is it was stamped poorly.
    6=1964
    09= Sept
    C=61-65 iron 196
    16= 16th day

2. It has a Fram PH11 mounted directly to the oil pump and my understanding that would make it a 65.

3. The water pump on it is a 64 style according to the Galvin's site, one 5/8" nipple, but the head has a nipple for a bypass hose (blocked off) which makes me think it has a 65 style head and/or engine. Galvin's shows a 65 pump that looks like it would fit. Pump was replaced during rebuild.

4. I have records showing the engine was r&r'd and rebuilt in 1990. Nothing noted that another engine was swapped in but I suppose that would be possible if the original engine was not rebuildable.

5. VIN B697104  The car is titled as a 64 and it lines up as a 64 as far a looks go.

I've been told that the engine numbers show it is a Sept 64 engine. Is it possible that this is a very late 64 car with a 65 style engine originally installed at the factory or is it a 64 with a 65 engine? I'm a retired Chrysler mechanic and I remember that late built cars would end up with early parts from the next year. Assembly plants can do interesting things to say the least.

Any other things I need to look at to ID what I have?

Edited by lostcause - Aug/02/2021 at 9:40am

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lostcause Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/30/2021 Location: Spring Hill, KS Status: Offline Points: 40	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostcause Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 196 Engine ID, What Do I Have? Posted: Aug/02/2021 at 9:11am
	I'm working on a 1964 American 440 convertible with a 196 but I'm running into things that don't line up with a 64 engine. Note: I've moved this post from another members post. 1. Stamped 6U9C16 The U might be half of a 0, it's not a full U so my guess is it was stamped poorly. 6=1964 09= Sept C=61-65 iron 196 16= 16th day 2. It has a Fram PH11 mounted directly to the oil pump and my understanding that would make it a 65. 3. The water pump on it is a 64 style according to the Galvin's site, one 5/8" nipple, but the head has a nipple for a bypass hose (blocked off) which makes me think it has a 65 style head and/or engine. Galvin's shows a 65 pump that looks like it would fit. Pump was replaced during rebuild. 4. I have records showing the engine was r&r'd and rebuilt in 1990. Nothing noted that another engine was swapped in but I suppose that would be possible if the original engine was not rebuildable. 5. VIN B697104 The car is titled as a 64 and it lines up as a 64 as far a looks go. I've been told that the engine numbers show it is a Sept 64 engine. Is it possible that this is a very late 64 car with a 65 style engine originally installed at the factory or is it a 64 with a 65 engine? I'm a retired Chrysler mechanic and I remember that late built cars would end up with early parts from the next year. Assembly plants can do interesting things to say the least. Any other things I need to look at to ID what I have? Edited by lostcause - Aug/02/2021 at 9:40am

ramblinrev Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11538	Post Options Post Reply Quote ramblinrev Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/02/2021 at 10:35am
	That's a '65 engine! (Built in September '64 for the '65 model cars.) (Your post yesterday had a letter wrong in it....which is why I was questioning the code. That "U" is a Zero) No doubt it came in a '65 car and was transplanted into your '64 over the years. Edited by ramblinrev - Aug/02/2021 at 10:37am
	74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977) 62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)

lostcause Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/30/2021 Location: Spring Hill, KS Status: Offline Points: 40	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostcause Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/02/2021 at 8:22pm
	Well I was hoping for an original engine but at least it is an upgrade with the full flow oil filter. I checked the compression and it's 156-160 so on the bright side it's a good engine. I think I will install a 65 water pump so it matches the engine.

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/03/2021 at 1:06am
	"Original engine", when it comes to the 195.6, flathead of OHV, is uncommon. These cars were driving hard and long, and engine swaps and rebuilds were very common. More common than not. What color was the engine? I have a 65 engine also, it was orange, down to the cast iron. I was wondering if that was an AMC "replacement" engine color. It was (and still is) standard bore, bearings were std but now .020 under. The water pump is funny -- it has an extra spigot, and there's a nipple under the thermostat pod that it connects to with a very short hose. This is an engineering fix for a terrible design flaw. It causes coolant to circulate within head and block at all times, even cold with the thermostat on. Slows warmup somewhat but prevents all sorts of awful problems. If you can't find the right pump, use an earlier pump and put a tee in the heater hose, plumb the extra leg to the thermo pod nipple. It will do the same thing. I put a 90 degree fitting into a 1962 head installed on the 1965 block. Much easier to mess with than the factory setup.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

mramc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/12/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3217	Post Options Post Reply Quote mramc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/04/2021 at 4:35pm
	If it got the full flow oil filter then it is diffidently a 1965 engine . There not a kit to change it to a full flow oil filter. It was made that way and September 1964 engine build date would be for the 1965 production year. LRDaum
	LRDaum

lostcause Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/30/2021 Location: Spring Hill, KS Status: Offline Points: 40	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostcause Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/05/2021 at 10:14am
	Since it has been determined the engine is a 65, which sounds like it is not a bad thing, I'll go ahead and update the water pump to a 65 style. Currently it has a good rebuilt 64 style pump, which I considered leaving on and add a tee to the head fitting as previously mentioned, but unfortunately it is the wrong length so the pump pulley doesn't line up.