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Is There A Way to Tell What Brakes A Car Came With |
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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Yes, I'm aware of how a non-used hub looks and forms the splines upon installation. The issue that I don't want it to be "easy to tell" only after it's in my hands, discovering that it's used and the wrong part when it was represented as non-used, then be told they don't take returns on used parts (even though it was misrepresented). I've been burned by this exact same scenario before, thus my emphasis on ensuring it's the correct and non-used part.
Perhaps my point is not coming through well. I am not saying the car came with disc brakes -- I know it came with drum brakes. It has disc brakes now and I have no way to tell what drums it had originally so I can find the proper hub. The issue (if you follow the link to my other thread) is that I was attempting to remove the hub and it bent. I need a new-to-me hub (whether actually new or not -- using old hubs has been extensively discussed with me elsewhere, it's not necessary to repeat here) and this supplier supposedly has NOS drum/hub assemblies. My intent was to use only the hub part of the assembly.
Edited by Scrappy - Jun/22/2021 at 11:10am |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Is there any way you can get pics of your hub showing the measurements? Stand it on the back side, measure from there to the face of the flange and from the face of the flange up to the end where the washer and nut go?
I have a couple of axles here with hubs on them - at least I thought I saw a couple when I was digging around on my high shelves. It may be very very difficult for you to find NOS hubs for the 20 as every owner of a Javelin or AMX would have snapped those up in a heartbeat just because. |
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Online Points: 4804 |
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I've seen several size brakes for one axle but the axle wasn't different, just the drum, backing plate,etc. It seems to me the hub would be more expensive than a backing plate. Oh well, it is what it is and good to know.
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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Yes, I certainly can. The hub is still on the axle, though, but I can easily do the measurements, as I have the proper tools for that (I'm a hobby machinist, but certainly not enough of one to make a hub!). I understand this would only be the external measurements, without the bore sizes.
Yes, getting NOS hubs is highly unlikely, it's just that the possibility seemed to exist with the supplier who supposedly has the NOS drum/hub assemblies. As for snapping them up, that's what I was trying to do when I ordered two -- so I could have a spare. I am not dead-set on getting NOS hubs. If I have to, I will go the used route and have the keyway re-done, or buy a complete used shaft/hub assembly, which I know is available (but 3x as expensive and much more work than just doing a hub). Before anyone suggests it, yes, I am aware of the single-piece axles offered by Dr. Diff and Moser. Let's not go off on that tangent, please, as those will not meet my needs for side-loading (I autocross) unless I get custom assemblies and housing ends, which will add $$$ not only due to the axles and housing mods, but will add more $$$ for different brakes and will take significantly more effort. Again, I am aware of this and don't want to get into this discussion for now -- it's a last resort.
Edited by Scrappy - Jun/22/2021 at 11:49am |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I suppose it depends on where they bought the brake assemblies, or HOW they bought them. The parts book says the hub is part of the "brakes and wheels" - NOT part of the "axle" or drivetrain. So the AMC parts counter guy looked in group 8 - brakes - to find the hubs, then they had to know the vehicle and brake size. It took me a while to realize why I had this so engrained into my head - I experienced it myself years ago - I noticed that when I snapped the end off the axle of my SX4 (INTERNALLY, not the hub end!) and I grabbed the axle from parts car I had at the time, I had trouble with the drum scraping and grabbing the backing plate. That's when I started asking around, the Eagle people, first - and found differences. |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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I was wrong in my assumption about hubs being the same, corrected by billd.
The 77 Hornet/Sportabout axles I pulled, I did so to retrieve the 10 x 1.75 brake assemblies, hence the hub press-off. But of course the backing plates from a '20 won't bolt onto a '15 and this was long enough ago I had forgotten the distance and things like "forums" didn't exist! So it was bang about in the dark... Anyway, I have the hubs clean and handy, so fwiw, post the measurements of what you got and how you derive 'em and I'll do the same. For proof, you could ask for a phone photo of the inside of the hub, with a bright light. But if they knew what unused hubs were they'd know what they are worth, and would probably be charging accordingly. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19608 |
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I don't have my 79 TSM in an accessible place right now. The only reference I have (Chilton's AMC, 75-86, #7199) says that all 79-80 Hornet/Spirit/Concord used the same rear brakes EXCEPT the four cylinder model. Has diameter of drums (10" for 79), but not width. I would suspect that the Spirit used the narrower brakes. I do recall the specs are the same as the TSMs... I've cross referenced the book before. For Hornet/Concord/Spirit/Gremlin: 75-76, sixes used 9", V-8s 10" 1977 all used 10" 78-80 four cylinder used 9", all others 10" 81-83 all used 9" except wagons, which used 10"
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Frank Swygert
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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OK, here are the dimensions of the existing hub on the car: |
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73Gremlin401
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Mar/02/2013 Location: Stmbt Sprgs CO Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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I remember when George did the conversion, but I wasn't around to witness it, so some of my info will need some verification. The rear axle in that car should have had the 2" wide shoes - generally, 2.5" was reserved for Matador/Ambassador wagons only, although I'm sure there's some other applications I don't know about. But on a lightweight Spirit, 2.5s would have been overkill. You may want to reach out to Jeff P - he probably knows this stuff off the top of his head.
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73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727. 81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd 83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto |
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Scrappy
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/26/2019 Location: Alpharetta, GA Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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Jeff and I are friends and we've been discussing the issue. I'm sure if he had info to add he would have told me by now, but I don't know what I don't know, so is there something particular that you think hasn't been brought up yet?
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