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73 Javelin brake and suspension project |
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amxess
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/30/2007 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 768 |
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Lookin good Bill! I went without the dust shields. 68-70 ones and the later ones you're getting didn't work with the Wilwood brakes. Maybe the KH ones would but can't find them. Brakes will cool better though!
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Thanks. Apparently this has a large sway bar - I went to town AGAIN today for more parts and asked the about the sway bar bushings - and had taken one from that car with me.
They didn't have anything with a hole that large and I don't mean worn out as it was snug on the bar so it must be the larger bar. I guess I have to actually measure the sway bar tomorrow and order the right bushings. The ones on the car aren't totally trashed - they should be changed but oddly enough aren't eaten up by the oil the car has leaked in the past like some of the other bushings. They seem pretty solid yet, actually. I'm really happy with the way the brakes have fit and gone into place. Doing a mock-up and dry run or two with a spindle and rotor and test fitting a caliper was the easiest part of the whole project - getting the old parts off like the upper control arms (those bolts are never easy to get out on these cars) and getting things cleaned up was far more work. And machining the spindles - piece of cake. I'm wondering if I should run the master cylinder with these until I get one for disks - the master cylinder was replaced only weeks before the car went up on stands a year ago - it's brand new. It's a drum brake master - so unless there's a bore difference, the only real difference would be the need to remove the residual check valve for the front circuit and to make really sure I kept watch on fluid since disk brake calipers hold a lot more fluid and take in more as the pads wear than drum brakes ever would. If the bore is the same then the forces would be the same, just a capacity difference. Keeping it full should work until I decide to get a new one. Hate to waste a brand new master cylinder.
I guess I'll look up bore size perhaps from the Rockauto site...... |
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amxess
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/30/2007 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 768 |
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Is your sway bar stock or aftermarket? I've used poly sway bar bushings (and for strut rods) for years and swear by them. Won autocross class against new Mustangs/Camaros.
Checked my 73 parts book. Master Cylinder has same part # for 74 Javelin with or without disk brakes,but doesn't list a 73 without disks.My 72 & earlier parts book has same part # for 69-71 Amx,Javelin WDB & 70-72 LDB has a different part #. My car sat for two years. Did have crud in master which I replaced. Had replaced lines previously with stainless. Used one whole bottle + 1/4 of another flushing lines until all clear and no air.. |
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4837 |
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I'm still running a drum brake master on mine 4 years after going to 4 wheel disc. As much as I drive it, I still haven't had to add fluid due to pad wear. IMO, use that new master you already have. |
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Most AMCs had the same 1" bore (or metric that is very close to 1" in late model Eagles) for all brakes. The exceptions are a 1-1/8" bore MC for the "Big Bendix" calipers (3.1" piston vs 2.6" -- 75-76 all, 75-78 big cars) and a 1-1/16" used with Kelsey-Hayes calipers for manual discs (K-H calipers have a 2-3/4" piston - 71-74). The Matador and Ambo used 1-1/8" MCs with K-H calipers and power brakes also (71-74). They used a bigger power booster than all other as well.
So you will be fine with the drum MC with residual pressure valves removed from outlet to disc brakes. |
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Frank Swygert
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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You are all correct - you have validated my findings in that they all used 1" bore master.
Funny thing - some parts sites show the same cylinder, some show with the larger reservoir for the disk than the drum, but they all have the same line sizes and same bore. And thanks for validating my plan - use this new master until it needs to be replaced. I bought a quart of fluid - coupled with what I have I'll be able to flush things well. Of course I'm replacing all of the lines - so there will be new lines along with the unused calipers and recent master.
I have a roll of the copper/nickel line. Will be using that. Because it's a drum to disk conversion several of the lines will be quite different so some will be "from scratch". Thanks, Mopar_Guy - that's my plan. I had figured, based on experience and training but your REAL WORLD experience using the drum master helps. Stock sway bar and I've wondered about the poly bushings because they'd outlast the rubber under my conditions. |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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The sway bar is the only place I typically use poly bushings. Doesn't affect ride, and you put a sway bar on to stiffen against body roll anyway. Don't like the poly control arm or strut rod bushings on a street car -- too much vibration and shock transmitted to the car. I've used the drum master in several drum-to-disk conversions -- every one I've done with manual disks, and at least one (my car) with power (used drum booster and MC). Kept it until the booster failed and I retrofitted a newer booster (Ford Ranger). The 65 Rambler drum booster (and the Ranger booster) boost the brakes just enough to know you have some help, but still provide a good bit for pedal feedback, unlike the large boosters used in most mid 70s cars with disc/drum setups.
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Frank Swygert
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Frank I couldn't agree more. I will likely end up using poly for the sway bar bushings - like you say there's no road vibrations etc. transmitted there, and the rubber on the links absorb anything coming from the lower control arms.
Your comment on the boosters reminds me of when I was in college for a few weeks I car-pooled with a neighbor girl who lived about two blocks from my parents and was going to the same school. When it was her turn to drive she had me drive her car- a Chrysler product (can't recall the exact model now but a 70s car) and I hated the power steering feel and the power brakes. NO road feel on either and talk about hair triggers...... ugh. I would have preferred MANUAL, no boost, no power, to the feel of the steering and brakes of her car. More work on the car today I HOPE......... Here are the bolts I de-rusted and cleaned up and plated - they hold the bracket that holds the lower control arm bumper bracket to the frame. They were totally rust before. Also the left strut rod - I refinished the nuts and large concave washers (or convex, depending on your point of view - I guess they are DISHED washers from either side!!) I also plated the threaded area to slow rust and make alignment easier. |
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Hi Bill,
Assume you're baking plated fasteners and structural parts after plating to minimize chance of hydrogen embrittlement stress fracture? Thanks, RD
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Been into many discussions and studies on that topic and the sort of plating I'm doing has no risks, the parts aren't subjected to the sort of acids involved - and frankly, even the professionals where I get the supplies say it's "more talk than problem".
Somehow it got applied to all plating, all acids, any length of times and so on instead of where the real/only problems are. In other words, the info was grabbed from the web and took on a life of its own over time. The circumstances where it's a problem aren't present in my cases. In fact, in most cases of modern plating. (I know of no one baking plated parts.) A number of professional plating areas have debunked the need for this sort of plating and on the parts being done. A pH in the ranges I'm working with aren't an issue - and the zinc is applied so quickly the substrate below isn't exposed to the MILD acid for more than a split second. Ammonium chloride, potassium chloride, zinc chloride......... pH roughly 5.3 to 5.6 |
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