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Removing Trans from Torque Tube

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ramblinfsj View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec/31/2008 at 4:01pm
I am planning on pulling the engine (196OHV) from my '62 Classic 400 this weekend and I'm thinking about pulling the transmission with it. If I do, is there anything I need to know about separating the transmission from the torque tube? After undoing the flange bolts, will to two just slide apart or is there some on the inside that I have to take apart? This is my first encounter with a torque tube so I don't want to screw anything up. Or would you guys suggest that I leave the transmission in there and just pull the engine? Thanks Guys.
1982 Jeep J-20
1965 Rambler American 220
1978 Jeep Cherokee w/401
1983 Jeep J-10
1979 Concord DL 2dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/31/2008 at 4:14pm
Pull the nuts or bolts from the 4 corners and the tube slides back. There's a simple connection there, just slides onto the output shaft. If I recall, there's a CV joint on the front end of the driveshaft and the joint has pretty much the same connection as an open driveshaft - slides over the splines on the tranny output shaft -  you'll see that joint when you get it apart. Good time to check it to be sure it's smooth - I can't recall having to ever replace too many, perhaps a couple.
Keep in mind that torque tube helps locate the differential so make sure you are prepared for that, otherwise, it's VERY simple. (at least it did on the later classics)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/31/2008 at 4:59pm
If Farna sees this thread, I'm sure he'll post.  He has much recent experience with the TT drive cars.  I have two of them but I haven't dropped a tranny on one of them at home yet.  I've disassembled them in the junkyard and I know you have to pay attention to the fact that the rear is on coil springs.  I think you need to block the whole car body up on jackstands and disconnect the rear shocks and the e-brake cable so the TT has somewhere to go when you try to move it back from the tranny.   Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/04/2009 at 7:10am
Bill and pacerman got you started! Everything on the rear axle needs to be disconnected -- park brake cable, shocks, panhard rod (disconnect from body, tie to axle), and rear brake line. I always put jack stands under the body right in front of the rear tires. Put a floor jack under the axle to jack it up, and take the rear tires off so the axle will go low enough you can slide it back. Oh, you want to go from directly in back with the floor jack so it will roll straight back with the axle on it. DO NOT try to "jack" or pull the rear axle back! You'll just bend or break the panhard rod, shocks, and brake lines. That trick worked on old Chevies, but they used leaf springs that limited movement.

That slip joint on the trans has been on there a while! You may have to get under the car and push on the axle with both feet to get it loose the first time, so make sure the jack stands are good and sturdy and block behind the front wheels.

You may want to pull the trans from under the car, especially if it's a manual. Those engines were installed from the bottom at the factory and clearance to pull them from the top is tight! If it's an auto I'd pull with the trans on, manual I'd drop the trans but leave the bell on. If you pull from the top with the trans remove the radiator AND the water pump. That will buy you some room. I haven't pulled one from a big car in a long time, but I'm pretty sure it's still tight between the engine and upper radiator support. Easy to remove both the radiator and water pump, and will save a lot of trouble.

Bill, only the 63-66 V-8 models use the CV joint. Earlier V-8s and all sixes use a single u-joint. The V-8 models have a two piece driveshaft with a tubular front half and solid rear half, the sixes all used a solid shaft (similar to an axle shaft). The tube is the main axle locator on all the TT cars -- the tube, panhard rod, and shocks hold the axle in. Shocks keep it from going down so far the springs fall out or the brake lines get strained. The earlier models use only one bolt on each side and a spring to hold a rounded pivot joint together instead of the flat flange used on 62-66 models. Other than that everything is the same.

DO NOT pull the shaft out unless you really need too -- only reason is if tube is damaged or the center bearing needs replacing. That bearing lasts a long time, as do the u-joints. I've pulled several with over 100K to find u-joints as tight as the day they were put in by the factory -- no dust and dirt inside the tube! The driveshaft will pull out from the front, but the slip coupling on the axle is probably stuck too, so if the shaft needs to come out unbolt from the axle and pull it off. The center bearing sticks to the tube, so you may have to drive the shaft out using a block of wood, at least to break the bearing loose. The bearing can be damaged when removing, something you don't want to do unless replacing it!

Edited by farna - Jan/04/2009 at 7:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinfsj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/05/2009 at 3:12pm
Thanks Guys. I went and just pulled the engine but now that I did and moved the car out of the way, I think I should have pulled the tranny with it. When I tried to move the car, it would roll backwards but when I tried to pull the car forward, the rear wheels wouldn't spin. I figured out that from where the transmission mounts are, the rear of the transmission sagged down, and it put the torque tube and the output shaft of the tranny in a bind not allowing the rear tires to spin. Pushing the car backwards forced the rear of the transmission up, not putting things in a bind, and the tires spun fine. So I hooked a ratchet strap to the top bellhousing hole the the other end to the front crossmember and adjusted the strap until the transmission was back inline with the tube. While trying to figure out all this, when I was under the car looking I noticed some rubber sticking out at the front of the tube. It is a large rubber ring. What is this rubber part? By the looks of it, it needs to be replaced.
1982 Jeep J-20
1965 Rambler American 220
1978 Jeep Cherokee w/401
1983 Jeep J-10
1979 Concord DL 2dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/05/2009 at 4:50pm
I'm assuming you have the four bolt square flange, not the two bolt round "socket" attaching the tube to the car.  In that case, the rubber piece is just a thick rubber cushion that goes between the end of the tube and the transmission. You can make another by using a dense foam rubber. It should be about an inch thick. One of those mats sold at Wal-Mart to set exercise equipment and such on should be dense enough. You will need to replace the rear seal when you get the tube pulled back also. The tube should be dry, but a leaking rear seal will let oil in, and the oil usually breaks down the rubber pad.

The tube flange isn't welded to the tube, it is a loose fit. The tube itself is "flared" after it goes through the flange. The pad is glued to the flange and flare, so the flange won't rotate. When the rear wheels push forward they push the flared end of the tube forward against the pad, which is between the flare and transmission adapter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinfsj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/06/2009 at 2:20pm
Yes, Frank, it is the 4 bolt flange. I forgot to mention it has the Flash-o-matic. I understand what you're saying about the flange and the rubber. I was thinking the rubber ring was a carrier bearing or something but if it's just a cushion I can take care of that with a piece of rubber like you were saying. I just need to take the tube apart so I know what parts and what's going on inside the tube. If I have anymore questions I need to take some pictures so it will be easier to discuss what the part is, what it does, how to install/disassemble, ect. Thanks for the education FrankClap and I'm sure I'll ask more questions.
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1978 Jeep Cherokee w/401
1983 Jeep J-10
1979 Concord DL 2dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/06/2009 at 3:15pm

One thing I would invest in is a 1962 TSM.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/06/2009 at 4:16pm
>>Bill, only the 63-66 V-8 models use the CV joint. Earlier V-8s and all sixes use a single u-joint.<<
 
One little detail.......  ;-)
Yes, I'd forgotten that. Most of the "Ramblers" worked on were Americans with the 6, my car, however, was a 64 Classic and I had that baby apart more than I care to say due to constantly ripping up the transmission while racing it. The bolts were clean and came out very easily.
First thing I did was take loose the bottoms of the shocks, jack up the body a bit and remove the rod, brake hose and disconnect the parking brake cable. Then when you unbolt the tube it (the whole rear end) will roll back.
There was hardly ever an issue with the shaft, joints of differential pinion seal possibly because they were protected from a lot of the dirt and dust open shafts get.
 
No kidding on the safety part - you want it solid on stands!
I can recall "kicking one back" and that darned differential rolled clean out from under the car into the other bay dragging the tube behind it.  On that smooth level floor I learned to block behind so the differential didn't roll into Madison county.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinfsj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/06/2009 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

One thing I would invest in is a 1962 TSM.

 
I have one but it isn't as indepth with the info as say it does the transmission. It's an absolute great book. The torque tube pictures are drawn (or animated) in the book and I'm more of a hands on, visual learner. It won't hurt to see what's in there (I hope) so I'll take the tube apart a little bit. The hardest part about reading the TSM is knowing what part they're talking about when I've never dealt with those kind of parts before. But like Bill said, with the parts being inclosed in the tube there shouldn't be to many things to replace.


Edited by ramblinfsj - Jan/06/2009 at 4:35pm
1982 Jeep J-20
1965 Rambler American 220
1978 Jeep Cherokee w/401
1983 Jeep J-10
1979 Concord DL 2dr
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