TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Transmission & Drivetrain
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - AMC Manual Transmissions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

AMC Manual Transmissions

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AMC Manual Transmissions
    Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 10:12am
AMC MANUAL TRANSMISSION USE

I just looked all this data up in the TSMs in reference to a question on the T-85/86/89 from a member in the projects area. Thought it would be a good idea to make this a new post. If you have any comments I'd appreciate it, especially on the 327 use with and without OD.
THIS POST IS A MOVING TARGET! As I get new info from comments I'll come back and edit this post so we have one comprehensive list.

T-96 3 speed -- all 199 and smaller sixes in big cars (through 1966). Used in American and early Hornet and Gremlin up to 1972.  In 68 & 69 it was only used behind the 199. In 1970-72 a heavier duty version (T-96J) was used behind the 232 in Hornet and Gremlin only. Borg-Warner overdrive was available through 1969. Side shift, four bolt top cover.

T-85 3 speed -- big cars with 232 or V-8, Borg-Warner overdrive only, through 1965. Not used in American. Side shift, side cover (shift arm side). See notes!
T-86 3 speed -- used behind 232 and larger sixes in big cars, 250, 287 and 290 V-8s through 1967. Used with overdrive behind the 250 V-8 (1956-61). Side shift, four bolt top cover.

T-89 3 speed -- used behind the 327 in big cars through 1966. Side shift, side cover (shift arm side). See notes!

T-10 4 speed -- 1965-74.  Replaced OD for V-8s in big cars in 65. After 66 this was the only manual trans offered behind engines larger than the 290. Side shift, side cover (shift arm side). Reverse is in output shaft housing. Essentially a T-85/89 with 4th gear replacing reverse in the case.

Starting in 1968 all the old manual transmissions were dropped with the exception of the T-96, which soldiered on in small cars through 1972. They were replaced with fully synchronized three speeds. The old ones only had one synchronizer between 2nd and 3rd gears -- first and reverse were only intended to be used from a dead stop. Down-shifting into 1st at other than a stop or near stop is the most common damaging mistake made with the old style manual transmissions.

T-14 3 speed -- used behind 232 in all but 70-72 Hornet and Gremlin, 68-74. It was a heavy duty option for the Hornet and Gremlin 70-72. Used in 71-74 304 Javelin/Hornet/Gremlin. Borg-Warner overdrive was available through 1969 for sixes. Reintroduced in 75 for the Gremlin with 232/258 only. Side shift, 6 bolt top cover.

T-15 3 speed -- Standard behind the 290/304, 68-72. 71-72 Javelin and AMX models with 360/2V had the T-15 with floor shift as standard equipment (68-70 models used auto or T-10).  Also used in SC/360 Hornet with floor shift (2V and 4V models). Not used behind the 4V 360 or any 401. All 68-72 big cars with larger V-8s and all 73+ V-8s got automatics or the T-10 four speed. EXCEPTION: 1971 360 (2V and 4V) in Hornet and Javelin used the T-15. Side shift, 8 bolt top cover.

150T 3 speed (also called T-150) -- 1975-79  behind the 232 and 258. Also used behind 304 in 1976 only.  Used in Hornet and Gremlin only with Laycock-DeNormanville OD unit 75-76. Side shift, 9 bolt top cover (Jeep versions with shifter in cover only show 8 bolts, no center bolt in rear).

SR4 4 speed -- 1977-82, Optional in Pacer/Hornet/Gremlin/Concord/Spirit/AMX, sixes only through 1978.  Used behind 304 in 78 and 79. Only manual transmission available starting in 1980. Top shift, shifter in cover.

HR1 4 speed -- 1977-79, Hornet/Gremlin 2.0L four only. Top shift, shifter in cover.

T-4 4 speed -- Replaced the SR4 sometime during 1982. Used with fours and sixes in all models through 1984. Top shift, shifter in cover.

T-5 5 speed -- Optional starting in 1982 with fours and sixes, all models. Standard in 1985-88 Eagles. Top shift, shifter in cover.


NOTES:
1. Because the T-85 and T-89 are virtually the same I can't positively say whether the T-89 was not used with OD behind the 327. As of the late 60s all three speed with OD transmissions were T-85s. Could just be the special ratio Twin-Stick T-85 replaced the standard T-89/OD behind the 327. I do know for sure that the T-89 three speed (non OD) was typically used behind the 327.  It appears that the T-89 was used behind the 327 in the late 50s and very early 60s from the TSMs.

2. Oddly, the 67 big car TSM shows a T-96 as the 232 transmission, but I believe that was just an editing error. The 65 and 66 big car TSMs clearly show the T-86. The T-96 was barely adequate in the lighter American with 232, and an HD version was made for the 70-72 for the Hornet and Gremlin. I can't imagine that AMC tried to use it in the heavier cars that one year.

Edited by farna - Jan/09/2020 at 6:27am
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
Sonic Silver View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Nov/23/2011
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 7901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 12:33pm
 In 1971, the 3 speed in the floor was the standard transmission in the 360-2 barrel or 4 barrel engine in the Hornet and Javelin. I believe it was the T-15. 
Back to Top
SportaboutX View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/10/2011
Location: West Coast
Status: Offline
Points: 1010
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SportaboutX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 1:07pm
Yea I was just about to add that too. Also in 1972 if you ordered a Hornet with a 360, say a 72 hornet X with a stick, I believe it would have been a 3 speed too. 
Back to Top
Sonic Silver View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Nov/23/2011
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 7901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by SportaboutX SportaboutX wrote:

Yea I was just about to add that too. Also in 1972 if you ordered a Hornet with a 360, say a 72 hornet X with a stick, I believe it would have been a 3 speed too. 
I remembered the 71 specs because I almost bought a 3 in the floor, 4 barrel SC/360 about 20 years ago, but wound up finding a 4 speed instead. I looked in my dealer brochure for 72, and it shows the 3 speed for the sixes and up to a 304. No 3 speed manual listed for the 360.
Back to Top
Sonic Silver View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Nov/23/2011
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 7901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

 In 1971, the 3 speed in the floor was the standard transmission in the 360-2 barrel or 4 barrel engine in the Hornet and Javelin. I believe it was the T-15. 

You are correct on the 360 2-barrel, but not the 4-barrel. That was 4-speed only.
I respectfully disagree. The three speed was standard on both 2 and 4 barrel 360 in 1971 only. Not only have I looked at a 71 SC/360 4 barrel, 3 speed with A1F061P serial number, I have 2 different dealer brochures from 1971 showing the 3 speed floor shift with 3.15 rear end as standard with the 2 or 4 barrel engine. If that SC/360 is still around, it was white with a red stripe and blue Serape fabric interior. The original owner still owned it when I saw it, and he ordered it that color combo because he liked the red, white, blue AMC cars. He even painted the sides of the car blue below the red stripe.
Back to Top
ramblinrev View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Dec/28/2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 11463
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

Originally posted by ramblinrev ramblinrev wrote:

Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

 In 1971, the 3 speed in the floor was the standard transmission in the 360-2 barrel or 4 barrel engine in the Hornet and Javelin. I believe it was the T-15. 

You are correct on the 360 2-barrel, but not the 4-barrel. That was 4-speed only.
I respectfully disagree. The three speed was standard on both 2 and 4 barrel 360 in 1971 only. Not only have I looked at a 71 SC/360 4 barrel, 3 speed with A1F061P serial number, I have 2 different dealer brochures from 1971 showing the 3 speed floor shift with 3.15 rear end as standard with the 2 or 4 barrel engine. If that SC/360 is still around, it was white with a red stripe and blue Serape fabric interior. The original owner still owned it when I saw it, and he ordered it that color combo because he liked the red, white, blue AMC cars. He even painted the sides of the car blue below the red stripe.

And you are right in disagreeing with me!Ouch  I believe that's a one-year only oddity in a powertrain combination. I thought the Go-Package included the 4-speed. It did not in '71. The 4-speed was a separate option. I'll erase my previous post.
74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384
70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)
Back to Top
Sonic Silver View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Nov/23/2011
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 7901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 5:48pm
Thanks for your post. It was a one year deal, and I think that AMC did it to advertise a low base price on the Hornet and Javelin V-8's. Actually, the manual 3 speed is a pretty good combination with a torquey motor. First gear was a 2.45 or thereabouts, and with a 3.15 rear, it gave about the same overall first gear ratio as a 2.23 first with a 3.54 rear in the 4 speed.
 
   I remember 4 road tests from years ago in which magazines tested a manual 3 speed in a musclecar, and came away impressed. One was a 68 or 69 300 horse Corvette. One was a 71 383 Roadrunner, and another was a 340 Dart. The testers said that the Dart was only .2 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile. The Corvette was essentially the same, and they preferred the Roadrunner due to lower cost .
 
   The 4th road test was not really a 3 speed, but Car Life tested a 2.64 first gear 68 Javelin as a 4 speed, and then by starting out in second gear and using the top 3 gears, and it was nearly as fast. It seems like second gear in those transmissions was about 2.10.
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 6:43pm
Don't erase a post because someone disagrees, not as long as POLITE discussion follows. The correction will be clear enough to anyone who follows. I'll go back and make that change to the master list. 
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
ramblinrev View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Dec/28/2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 11463
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblinrev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

Thanks for your post. It was a one year deal, and I think that AMC did it to advertise a low base price on the Hornet and Javelin V-8's. Actually, the manual 3 speed is a pretty good combination with a torquey motor. First gear was a 2.45 or thereabouts, and with a 3.15 rear, it gave about the same overall first gear ratio as a 2.23 first with a 3.54 rear in the 4 speed.
 
   I remember 4 road tests from years ago in which magazines tested a manual 3 speed in a musclecar, and came away impressed. One was a 68 or 69 300 horse Corvette. One was a 71 383 Roadrunner, and another was a 340 Dart. The testers said that the Dart was only .2 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile. The Corvette was essentially the same, and they preferred the Roadrunner due to lower cost .
 
   The 4th road test was not really a 3 speed, but Car Life tested a 2.64 first gear 68 Javelin as a 4 speed, and then by starting out in second gear and using the top 3 gears, and it was nearly as fast. It seems like second gear in those transmissions was about 2.10.
3-speeds were standard in many of the muscle cars, including the 1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1-one of the fastest production cars of its day. 4-speeds are more sought after, but you are right that a decently geared 3-speed could perform quite satisfactorily. About 2 years ago there was a beautiful blue '71 Javelin AMX with that combination on ebay...very rare!

Paul
74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384
70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981)
Back to Top
Sonic Silver View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Nov/23/2011
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 7901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/14/2012 at 8:06pm
You are right about standards 3 speeds, but you don't find many magazine road tests of them. I have owned 3 1970 GS455's, but all were automatics. One was a gold Stage 1 with a 3.64 rear, one a blue 455 with 3.42 gear and A/C, and the other also gold with a 2.93 gear and A/C. The 2.93 rear car was the last one I owned and I had to let either it or my SC/360 go because I wanted to get down to 2 old cars. The Hornet stayed. It was a tough choice though. The other is my 70 AMX that I ordered new, so it wasn't going anywhere.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or