Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
Engine replacement thoughts |
Post Reply | Page <1234 15> |
Author | |
mtrosclair
AMC Nut Joined: Feb/05/2022 Location: Metairie LA Status: Offline Points: 487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Oh I love the the thing, it’s just got a certain look about it that I enjoy. In the brief amount of time I was able to drive it it was quite pleasant.
|
|
1963 Rambler Classic 550
Originally a 196, this one has a 199 from a 69 American. |
|
wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 430 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That is more an article than a "for sale" of the engine - though it is both. If you scroll to the bottom there are comments that go back to 2014! I have come across that "sale" (so to speak) for a L-O-N-G time.
My understanding is that the 199 , 232 and a brief period of the 258 would adapt to the BW transmission but when AMC went to the Torqueflite (Chrysler) trans (early 70's) the bolt pattern changed. So, one would be looking for a rebuilt 50 year old engine, and the poster said he can't fabricate and wants to buy something that would allow adaptation. Maybe someone has and would still be willing to fabricate an adapter (I'm thinking engine mounts that I presume are different) but what are the odds of that, - adapting a 50 year old engine (199, 232, 258) to a 60 year old car that came with a 196.5? Rebuilding the existing engine seems the most practical given the odds of finding a decent 50 year old engine and the need to fabricate likely engine mounts and other adaptations the poster states he is not qualified to do. Between the torque tube and the Torqueflite trans change those early 60's AMC cars are very limited in options without MAJOR alterations.
|
|
'63 American Hardtop
|
|
mtrosclair
AMC Nut Joined: Feb/05/2022 Location: Metairie LA Status: Offline Points: 487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I realized at the onset of this, that it was probably limited as far as my options, and either rebuilding the engine I have or sourcing a running replacement, may be my only or best choice. It looks like ‘65 and up 196 engines have full flow oil filtration also. Edited by mtrosclair - Jan/08/2023 at 6:47pm |
|
1963 Rambler Classic 550
Originally a 196, this one has a 199 from a 69 American. |
|
bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6685 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A 71 or earlier 232 might be a good replacement if it bolts to your bell. I have driven a 66 Classic with a 232 and it was a great car. Not overflowing in power, but certainly not under powered. The 196 is getting very long in the tooth and parts are not all the available - the early 232 is getting the same, but the Jeep 4.0 keeps a lot of the 199/232/258 parts in circulation. If you're on a road trip and something fails, it's nice to be able to buy it at a local parts store. The 196 is getting past this reality.
|
|
69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
|
|
1958 rambler super
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Tomj said one time somewhere in the forum he had an idea to use some kinda of Honda or Toyota engine in his American.
Might have to do a fact check on that. By the way... I haven't seen him posting on the forum for awhile. But a better engine choice because of newer technology, and available parts would be worth it, imagine the piece of mind if you needed to fix it? You could just get the parts at the store no problem... And piece of mind that it would be less likely to breakdown as much since the engine isn't ancient, and you could still drive and enjoy your nice old car.
Edited by 1958 rambler super - Jan/08/2023 at 7:25pm |
|
AMXFritz
AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/18/2021 Location: SE Iowa Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You might check the 'for sale' section.
|
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've explored several engine swaps. Almost anything will fit in a 63+ Classic, even the earlier big cars. Not hard to fit something (except maybe big blocks) in the 64+ American either. The 58-63 Americans are the ones hard to fit another engine in. The kicker with the 56-66 big cars is the torque tube. The tube mounts to the trans and is the main locating arm for the rear axle. Go to a modern engine and you need a modern trans for it, so you lose the ability to mount the torque tube. That means an axle and rear suspension swap. You CAN keep the torque tube in some cases (if trans isn't too long or short), but it's a lot of work -- easier to swap the axle and rear suspension. Keep the stock coil springs and it's not terribly difficult, but you need some fabrication skills or a good friend who can. Several option -- look at the sticky under drivetrain for 56-66 rear end swaps, page 16 is the most relevant. Somewhere before that page is a photo of what it take to keep the torque-tube. 1971 and earlier sixes use the same bell bolt pattern. There is a slight difference in starter position between a 199/232/258 and the 196, but that just requires a little slotting of the starter bolt hole. The link posted earlier is a start, but there are some things unsaid. The radiator might need to be moved slightly forward, but not much. Radiator needs to be moved in a 64-65 American 196 to 232 swap, but the big car used a longer water pump shaft to make up for the longer front end. The 63-66 body was made from the start to take the 199/232 -- the engine just wasn't quite ready in 63, and it's generally not a good idea to introduce a new engine and body at the same time (or wasn't) -- both will have some teething issues and manufacturers really didn't want to have to deal with both at once. The perches for the 199/232 should be the same on all 64-66 models (232 came out in late 64 -- mostly in the Typhoon, but some others got it the last 2-3 months of production) EXCEPT the 65-66 Ambassador. Those had the lengthened front end (63-64 Ambo has same wheelbase as Classic, later model Ambos have longer wheelbase) and the engine perches sit further back so that the same torque tube could be used as in the Classic.
|
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
mtrosclair
AMC Nut Joined: Feb/05/2022 Location: Metairie LA Status: Offline Points: 487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A 232 does seem like a good solution with minimal custom work, the issue is of course finding one that’s “good”.
|
|
1963 Rambler Classic 550
Originally a 196, this one has a 199 from a 69 American. |
|
Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6909 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
How about this one:
Here, the machining costs to bore, sleeve, new parts ... would be more then what they want for the rebuilt long block. Have to factor in no core return, shipping and accessories that may not transfer over from the 199. But it is a rebuilt engine with warranty.
|
|
mtrosclair
AMC Nut Joined: Feb/05/2022 Location: Metairie LA Status: Offline Points: 487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That might be manageable but they say 6-8 weeks out and that's only if they have a core. With shipping it $2700 plus whatever accessories I'll have to buy, I'm assuming intake and exhaust manifolds, alternator and water pump, distributor and probably a bunch of other stuff. That would put it well north of 3k but it would have a warranty. Now if I could find a bad 232 with all the dressings to have rebuilt by them then maybe it might make sense. https://www.ebay.com/itm/292670772366 I found this, would still need most of the accessories. https://www.ebay.com/itm/144708290145?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D245022%26meid%3Dcd0c7b66205848929fa6a4f7c655d73b%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D292670772366%26itm%3D144708290145%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb%26brand%3DJeep&_trksid=p2047675.c101110.m1982 Or this one?
Edited by mtrosclair - Jan/09/2023 at 4:55pm |
|
1963 Rambler Classic 550
Originally a 196, this one has a 199 from a 69 American. |
|
Post Reply | Page <1234 15> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |