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engine died today.... |
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919 |
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bikerfox - Brake Lights WORK with Ignition Key OFF and Keys not even in the ignition, do they not?
Parking Brake Warning Light & Headlight Warning Buzzer BOTH are powered by the same Brake Light circuit, attached to the same 4-Amp "Gauges" Fuse Panel circuit to the adjacent Spade via a White wire that is part of the tacked-on only 3-wire maybe optional E-Brake Warning Light harness
That circuit is "hot" with the ignition Key "Off". E-brake circuit grounded through simple 1-wire switch on E-brake mechanism. Headlight Buzzer circuit is grounded through the brown wire attachment to the headlight switch. There are wire connections between the Headlight Switch & the Ignition Switch. With the Ignition turned OFF, somehow, don't ask me how, sometimes, 12 volt feed voltage from the E-Brake Light / Headlight Buzzer circuit "back feeds" through the Headlight & Ignition switches possibly causing the problem you are having, only because of your comments including E-Brake involvement. |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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If the relay is indeed wired as per the MSD sheet, then all that alternator diode stuff doesn't matter.
The factory wire that provided power to the coil "+" terminal, pink I think, the resistance wire, has power when the key is turned to IGNITION-ON, and no power at any other time. Put a voltmeter or test light on it and verify that it is so. It should always go on with the key and off with the key, no exceptions. If somehow you have power on the relay coil pin 86 when the key is OFF, then it's wired wrong. Or, the relay has failed and is sticking on, mechanically, inside. Swapping relays should identify that. There are some incredibly craptacular relays out there. Definitely an item to not buy by "lowest price". Buy actual Bosch brand (which probably means not from Amazon). For the last couple years I buy mission-critical generic stuff from Summit. Here's one that's probably decent: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bch-0332019150 |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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rgsauger
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/17/2014 Location: Houston,TX Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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100% agree On not buying cheap relays! I only buy the Bosch or Hella brand
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bikerfox
Moderator Group Joined: Aug/02/2009 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4468 |
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Thanks for chiming in, Tom. Just checked the voltage to the coil and it's 12v when the key is turned to ignition--on; off when ignition is off. And, relay clicked when the key turned to ignition--on.
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1969 Rebel SST (1970-1987)
1968 AMX (2005-2011) 1969 SC/Rambler (2011-2019) 1970 Javelin (2019 to ?)"Jane" |
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bikerfox
Moderator Group Joined: Aug/02/2009 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4468 |
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Thanks for the comments, Phat. I'm adding it to
all the other things I have to check. No one commented on the current engine to frame grd. and no engine to crossmember grd. Is this important?
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1969 Rebel SST (1970-1987)
1968 AMX (2005-2011) 1969 SC/Rambler (2011-2019) 1970 Javelin (2019 to ?)"Jane" |
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919 |
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bikerfox - have always been of the opinion the engine block to crossmember ground wire must be there in place.
No harm in having a second one there also. The distributor grounds through the housing through the block through the block ground wire. The ignition should only get a full 12 volts when CRANKING / Starting. Original factory wiring & the Solenoid attachments accomplish this. But once the ignition key is released and returns to the "Run" position the coil / ignition is then being fed through the factory resistance wire and less than a full 12 volts. If you're seeing a full 12 volts in the run position something is different, not stock. BUT the MSD ready-to-run Distributor might want it that way. Gotta ask, the Battery Hold down clamp is in place and tight?
If the battery tilts and the battery post touch anything, bad things happen. |
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Bucks AMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/18/2015 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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I'm not using a 'cheap' relay, I'm actually using a Bosch relay and yes the diode was necessary at least in my instance. The orange (Alternator light) wire carries enough residual current coming from the alternator to keep the ignition energized. A diode took care of the issue. Both the relay (12V requirement) issue and the runon issue have been addressed by MSD. And yes the relay is wired exactly as MSD advises.
Edited by Bucks AMX - Nov/29/2021 at 8:59am |
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1970 AMX 390 4spd Golden Lime
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bikerfox
Moderator Group Joined: Aug/02/2009 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4468 |
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Yes, battery is effectively installed and no issues with that, AFAICS.
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1969 Rebel SST (1970-1987)
1968 AMX (2005-2011) 1969 SC/Rambler (2011-2019) 1970 Javelin (2019 to ?)"Jane" |
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bikerfox
Moderator Group Joined: Aug/02/2009 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4468 |
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In order to accomplish the testing of the above, I think I'm gonna have to remove the '70 dreaded instrument panel. I've had it off before and it's not much fun, but the only way to test these circuits.
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1969 Rebel SST (1970-1987)
1968 AMX (2005-2011) 1969 SC/Rambler (2011-2019) 1970 Javelin (2019 to ?)"Jane" |
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919 |
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bikerfox - unaware on a 1970 model, but on a 1969 AMX all that was involved
was somewhat easily accessible from underneath the drivers side dash. That is when a person's young and limber and can easily contort them self in there LOL Familiar with all this as long ago I did an incognito in-dash "Shift Light" by commandeering the optional tacked-on simple stand alone E-Brake Warning Light Harness and Bulb Holder, disconnecting it from the E-Brake mechanism Ground Switch, & attaching it to an MSD RPM Switch. An there it was, a hidden, stock, in-dash RPM Activated Shift Light... and a UniLite fired MSD 6 Box. Car also had the optional Headlights on Warning Buzzer, which was still functional ! It all worked fine for awhile after initial install, then one evening acted up similar to your event. That is when & how it had to be dug into and figured out, and found the "back feed" situation. Just so everyone knows, not just blowin' smoke out of my... and makin' things up... Peace
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