|
|
|
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
304 vs 360 - one builders opinion |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123> |
| Author | |
PlazinJavelin 
Supporter of TheAMCForum 
Joined: Nov/02/2008 Location: Atlanta USA Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: 304 vs 360 - one builders opinionPosted: Jun/22/2009 at 9:25pm |
|
Tonight I crossed paths with an aquaintance who rebuilds engines (mostly mopars) and also seems to know quite a bit about AMC's. Of course we talked alot about the different engines, and in the end he really had me scratching my head. Based on what I've learned here over the past few months some things he said just didn't ring true. But he's far more experienced than I and I'm still a babe in the woods about every thing. So I couldn't dispute his opinion with any authority.
Any one seeing my earlier posts in various threads will know that I've brought home a rebuilt 304 (by Jasper) for my Jav restore project and more recently a used 360. Based on advise here I had decided to rebuild the 360 as future project and the fate of the 304 is up in the air but may be sold as funds for the 360 rebuild.
To paraphrase in short, this person says that a properly built 304 will be tougher, take more abuse, last longer than a redone 360 because of some of the hardware differences like cranks, heads and even oil distribution. I think I already know what the answer will be, but I'd really appreciate some one setting me strait on the issue once and for all. Seems to me that a 360 used in Jeeps is probably just as sturdy as a 304.
|
|
|
PlazinJavelin
Marlin Wannabe 
|
|
 |
|
|
billd
Moderator Group 
Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/22/2009 at 9:31pm |
|
HUH??
there's no difference at all in oiling. Same block, same pump, same lifters, same bearings, etc. Oiling is identical. Heads are basically the same as far as "tough". How can 304 heads be tougher? In what respect or area? Same bolt pattern holds them on. Cranks - same thing - where would a 304 crank be any tougher? I'v enot compared journal sizes, but even that shouldn't matter - I'd LOVE to see him DETAIL his "findings". There's no hardware differences, really - only measurements like stroke, bore, etc. Must not know that much about AMCs, IMO. Sorry, I disagree. It really does reinforce my thoughts on all the "shadetree" engine builders............. |
|
|
|
|
TorqueyAMX
AMC Addicted 
Joined: Dec/16/2008 Location: Simi Valley CA Status: Offline Points: 1139 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/22/2009 at 9:40pm |
|
That's almost Funny!
Maybe he's thinking the 360 is a "Mopar" 360 and not as tough as an AMC 304!
 Everything's pretty much the same except the 360 heads have much bigger valves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted
Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/22/2009 at 9:42pm |
|
Im with billd 100%. the 304 and 360 have the same stroke. 360 has a bigger bore. and the 360 in stock form will out run a built up 304. Your "buddies" dont know what they are talking about. Mopar engines are good, but there are many differences. a Mopar 360 IS not the same as an AMC 360..........other than both being called "360".............................
|
|
|
|
|
PlazinJavelin
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Joined: Nov/02/2008 Location: Atlanta USA Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/22/2009 at 9:45pm |
Much of the converstation had good common sence type of info on rebuilds, but things started going off the rails for me when we got to the AMC specific items. That's why I added the disclaimer "seems to know"
 Since he's mainly mopar oriented I began to wonder if he wasn't comparing an AMC 304 to the Mopar 360. That might be a more acurate comparison to some of his comments? Edited by PlazinJavelin - Jun/22/2009 at 9:55pm |
|
|
PlazinJavelin
Marlin Wannabe
|
|
|
|
|
72Javelin
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2466 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/23/2009 at 6:48am |
|
IIRC, the 304 and the 360 use the exact same crankshaft, the primary/only difference between the two being bore and valve size
|
|
|
Jeff Reeves
Auburn, GA AMO Technical Editor Currently AMC-less after 30+ years |
|
|
|
|
billd
Moderator Group
Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/23/2009 at 7:33am |
|
Those bigger valves weaken the heads...............
|
|
|
|
|
Hurst390
AMC Addicted
Joined: Apr/20/2008 Location: secret Status: Offline Points: 5818 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/23/2009 at 8:51am |
|
he "seems to know"...very little about a rambler engine..
|
|
|
SC/Hurst Rambler
11.62 120 100% Street Legal |
|
|
|
|
mramc
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jul/12/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/24/2009 at 5:42pm |
|
Given that you spend about the same $5,000 to $6,000 building a 290/304 engine as you would spend on doing a 360, 99.9% of the every one builds the 360.There are very few people who have ever spend the time and money to build to build a 290/304 engine. Given that so few have been built one of the small engine for high performance and I only know of less then 6 people who were even interested in doing that. AMC did make hipo 290 and a few 304s and given that the 290 ran in the ball park with the 302 Fords and Chevies in the 68 and 69 Trans-Am. The 290/304 has the only common bore size of any AMC engine a 3.750 and biggest over bore the factory recommends a 0.125 inches, so I'm thinking a wider number of pistons would be available for an over bored engine. Bored and stroked you could get some thing in the 314 to 330 range with out too difficulty. You still be given up a good 30 cubic inches but that smaller displacement has not hurt the 318 Mopars, 302 Fords and 331 Chevies inj the past. I'm thinking you be surprised at how much horsepower such an engine would make. Granted the the 360 would probably make a bit more with the extra displacement. I'm not sure I can afford the money it would take to see what one would do in the smaller displacement. I really only know one person who was trying to do this and that was Aaron Rodger in Colorado and because of the illness of his new born son , he had to sell the project. But I'm thinking a built 290/304 in Gremlin or an American might surprise you a bit. Just no ones really done it. But I'm thinking it would be really interesting to see what such an engine would do. LRDaum
|
|
|
LRDaum
|
|
|
|
|
PlazinJavelin
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Joined: Nov/02/2008 Location: Atlanta USA Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Jun/24/2009 at 6:53pm |
My first AMC was a 1968 2v 290 Javelin. I don't think had any special setup, just a stock car and engine. For a smaller engine, I thought it screamed though. Prior to the 290, I had owned a 4v 351 mustang and an 4v LTD with a 400. I really liked the 290 as soon as I drove it. Later I had a 2v 302 mustang, hated it, sold it about a year later. The other thing I liked about the 290 was the milage. I got avg 20-21 mpg while the 351 got about 15 if I took it easy and more like 8.5 if I didn't. The 302 was consistant at about 15-16mpg. Can't recall how the well the 400 did. Seems in all the others I was always watching the gas guage, but not so in the Javelin.
Fastforward 25 years with gas 3 times higher than 1984. Starting my first restore project with a scrappy "efficient" 290 seemed the way to go. So when the deal on the rebuilt 304 came up, it seemed the next best choice. Now with thoughts about more hp, CNG conversion and just the coolness factor, the 360 looks pretty enticing.
I won't be spending any where near 5-6k on an engine. The 304 is already rebuilt, so I won't be doing any more to it. So far I have the complete car and 304 for around $1200. I hope to only spend another 2-3k making the car road worthy and nice looking over the next couple of years. Of course years down the road, other pricey updates will be optional.
The plan so far is to tear down the 360 and see just how good or bad it is. If it's pretty good, then for now I will go with a refresh (scuff the cylinders for new rings, bearings, cam maybe, timing set, gaskets...) If its worse, then I'll start with the 304 and save the 360 for a future rebuild. If I had buckets of money I'd do it all differently, but thems the apples I have.
|
|
|
PlazinJavelin
Marlin Wannabe
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page 123> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Click for TheAMCForum Rules
Topic Options
billd wrote: