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Sanity Check for Price on Moser One-Piece Axles?

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Red Devil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2021 at 9:22pm
... personally, I wouldn't use Mosers for autocross even if they are machined for tapered roller bearings ... unless they've somehow improved the bearing retention as it is a weak-link in the refit axle shaft options for AMC20.   Best to check directly with Moser and skip that vendor with the big markup.   For $700, could likely get their Hobby-Stock circle track axle kit with the Ford-style ends for Set 80 bearings ... but maybe overkill for the application and need to get ends welded on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote THE MENACE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2021 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Scrappy Scrappy wrote:

Y'all,

My ongoing quest to replace a bent hub/flange on the AMC 20 in my '79 Spirit looks to be ending up with one-piece axles using tapered bearings.


So, Moser will build one piece axle kits with tapered roller bearings for a model 20??

Dennis 
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70 AMX 416, EFI, Nash 5 speed   
70 Javelin 401, 727 (Wife's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2021 at 2:23am
Originally posted by THE MENACE THE MENACE wrote:

Originally posted by Scrappy Scrappy wrote:

Y'all,

My ongoing quest to replace a bent hub/flange on the AMC 20 in my '79 Spirit looks to be ending up with one-piece axles using tapered bearings.

So, Moser will build one piece axle kits with tapered roller bearings for a model 20??


Yes, they use a Timken Set 9 (U298 & U261L), which is a tapered roller bearing. 

See "Installation Instructions for M/E Custom Alloy Axles for Jeep CJ5, CJ7" or the direct link to pdf.

IMPORTANT UPDATE 10/01/2021:  THE ABOVE IS INCORRECT!

I received my axles and the bearings ARE NOT TAPERED.  In short, Shane at Moser says they "don't do" tapered bearings on the car axles and "doesn't know" why they are able to do that on the Jeep axles (even though everything is the same except for the bolt circle & flange).


Edited by Scrappy - Oct/01/2021 at 8:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2021 at 11:47pm
Set 9 bearing OD = 2.559"
Set 5 bearing OD = 2.5625" (stock AMC 20)

Maybe a few thou clearance isn't a concern for some ... or maybe they include bore-tite or quick metal or similar to fill the gap?

Always double-check and question aftermarket options.  Maybe it works, maybe not?

Dutchman used to list one-piece axle shafts for the Set 5 bearing.  Don't know if they still sell them?  Issue with the set 5 is setting correct enplay.  Set 9 is a bi-directional load capable, single-row tapered roller bearing.  Uses a rib-ring to get the bi-directional load capacity, so need to ensure installed in the correct orientation and remove the shaft thrust block.

A 9" might be a more reliable option.  At least the aftermarket mostly understands them and lots of options.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Benjispr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2021 at 11:53pm
So I sent my axles off to Moser for my hornet in 2005 for them to make me a set of one piece axles with the sealed bering and retainers and everything with shipping it was 450
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2021 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Red Devil Red Devil wrote:

Set 9 bearing OD = 2.559"
Set 5 bearing OD = 2.5625" (stock AMC 20)

Maybe a few thou clearance isn't a concern for some ... or maybe they include bore-tite or quick metal or similar to fill the gap?

Always double-check and question aftermarket options.  Maybe it works, maybe not?

That's an interesting point, but in the numerous discussions about Moser's products, I haven't run across a single mention that this has been an issue for anyone, so I'm not concerned about this.

Originally posted by Red Devil Red Devil wrote:

Set 9 is a bi-directional load capable, single-row tapered roller bearing.  Uses a rib-ring to get the bi-directional load capacity, so need to ensure installed in the correct orientation and remove the shaft thrust block.

Thanks, I'm aware of all of that.

Originally posted by Red Devil Red Devil wrote:

A 9" might be a more reliable option.  At least the aftermarket mostly understands them and lots of options.

That's out of the question for now.  The diff had been rebuilt not too long before I obtained the car and has a TrueTrac, and I'm averse to the additional power loss that 9"s have when there's no need for the capacity of a 9".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imacarfan2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2021 at 9:01am
Would just like to say, very informative thread here. Thanks for all the info and good luck Scrappy on getting what you need!
67 Ambo conv
68 AMX
68 Ambo 4 door
70 Ambo 4 door
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2021 at 2:57pm
Remembered a post from way back of issues a member had with Set9, but seems mostly to be a problem of variations in housing bore depth and getting a suitable spacer made to positively retain the bearing axially.   Still not a fan of the loose bore fit or paricularly of how the bearings are retained, but seems few options without changing housing ends.  For drag, cruising or general street use, the Green sealed ball bearings seem fine.


Hope this helps, RD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2021 at 1:18pm
Folks, I had to take a few days from dealing with this to get a car driveable and go to a show out of state, but now that I'm back, here's what's transpired.  TL;DR at the end if you don't care to read all of this.

On the 16th, I wrote a fairly long email (note the total, which I slightly over-estimated in my head, as I recalled the request being for an additional $375).  Note I'm leaving off the salutations and signatures:
Quote This axle situation needs to be fixed on your end.  Please take some time to think about what I'm about to write and get back to me early next week.

You might not have been able to tell from my demeanor during your call this past Monday, September 14th, but I was quite taken aback.  From my research before I even contacted you at the beginning of June, I understood that custom axles for AMC 20 rear ends were running just under $400, whether from Dr. Diff or Moser.  So, when you called me on August 24th and told me that the Mosers would cost me (paraphrasing) "just a bit more than what you've already paid me," I found that quite reasonable.  However, the total amount of what you're asking for now is $679 ($325 + $354), MORE THAN DOUBLE what I originally paid you.  This is unacceptable.

Without mentioning your name/business publicly, I have been asking around and the reaction has been universally negative.  I even called Moser to confer and the rep was shocked when I told him what you were asking for the axles.  Again, $679 is unacceptable.

Let's run down a few things that have been giving me heartburn in our dealings:

1)  You asked for the first payment in the form of a money order, directed to you as an individual, not your business.  This gave me no direct recourse in getting the funds back.
2)  It was over a month and a half from when you received the money order until you finally admitted you didn't have the parts you claimed you did.
3)  You said the Mosers would be (again, paraphrasing) "just a bit more than what you've already paid," but now you're asking for more than double the original mount.
4)  You asked me to send the second payment via PayPal "Friends and Family," which (like a money order) would give me no direct recourse in getting the funds back.  This is why I said I would not use this method.
5)  You have never sent me an invoice stating totals or the exact items that would be delivered.

At this point, I either need my original $325 back or the new total adjusted to something far more reasonable and stated on an invoice (including totals and exact parts to be delivered), along with the name of a direct contact at Moser so I can deal with any technical/warranty issues.  For purposes of documentation, all communication from this point out should be via email, not via phone call.  This needs to be settled to my satisfaction by the end of next week, September 24th, 2021.

... a couple of short emails back-and-forth, then:

Him:
Quote I can refund your money less $50 for my time and getting the right parts, and you can buy straight from Moser.
Me:
Quote I think compensating you for your time talking with Moser is reasonable, but not $50 worth.  I already knew about their offerings and you really didn't help me get the right parts from them, as I would have worked out the right parts with them anyhow.  I was only going through you because of:  1) Your extreme reluctance to return my money, 2) the understanding that they'd cost me only a bit more via you, and 3) your offer to pay shipping.  I think $25 is reasonable and would like $300 back from you.
TL;DR -- He's refunding my money, but not all of it, because he wants compensation for time spent.  It remains to be seen how much I will get back -- $275 or $300. I'm only agreeing with some compensation so I can get this over with. I can tell you this much -- he won't ever be getting any of my business if I can help it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2021 at 6:42am
Well, even getting $275 back isn't unreasonable. I understand your frustrations with the whole matter though.

You mentioned not needing the strength of the 9". I understand you want to use the AMC 20 since it was recently rebuilt and has a Tru-Trac, but a Jeep XJ Dana 35 would have worked. They are a little wider than a car AMC 15, and a little stronger -- and have one-piece axle/hubs. Many have limited slip, but not all. There was also a HD D35 used in a lot of 4.0L Comanches (not sure about XJs -- probably fewer) that has slightly larger diameter axles. You would likely have to use deeper wheels like the Eagles did (XJ/MJ axle is same width as Eagle) though. Maybe not an option for you, but could be for others who want a bit stronger axle than an !MC 15, but not as heavy as a Ford 8.8" or 9". The Ford 8" is also a bit stronger than an AMC 15 and pretty common. The D35 and Ford 8" are a bit stronger mainly because of the one-piece axle/hub. Some of the internals may be stronger, especially in the HD D35, but they are roughly equivalent to the AMC 15. AMC15/D35 use the same 7-9/16" ring gear (interchanges), but other internals are different.
Frank Swygert
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