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Broken bolt inside block : removal question. |
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1958 rambler super 
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Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1204 |
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 Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 3:52pm |
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Well, I dont have a Dremel, but maybe after this morning with what I did, I think drilling it out and retapping it now is the only option left to proceed with towards putting this problem behind me.... Quietly as possible.... It keeps getting worse and worse guys.... None of the advice you all have me even comes close to what I did, and maybe that's where I went wrong.
What I did was I carefully tried to chase the threads of that hole, thinking maybe I could tap away some of the bolt to give the new shorter bolt a few more threads, and just leave what was left of the broken bolt in the bottom of the hole, but what I guess happened was that piece of bolt gradually pushed the tap sideways and tapped the side of the hole and now it's askew. Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/27/2021 at 3:54pm |
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bigbad69
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Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6685 |
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Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 5:07pm |
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You can't cut through a piece of broken shank with a tap. What kind of tap did you use: taper, plug, or bottoming? I suspect it was a taper tap and it hit the broken shank before it could fully engage the threads in the block. That's why it skewed. You may have damaged the initial thread or two, but all is not lost. That broken piece needs to come out. I highly recommend you to pull the engine, take it back to the machine shop, and have them fix it. Going at it hammer and tongs is only going to make things worse. Spending the money to fix it properly will save your current investment in machining on the block.
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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1958 rambler super
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Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1204 |
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Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 9:05pm |
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Yeah it was a taper.
All is not lost!! That's good to hear right now! But I'm not going to pull the engine :) Hahaha ahh man, that made me laugh, thanks, it's good to smile during engine/work/possible health problems/life. |
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 10:13pm |
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If you can get a drill in there, and very careful with a VERY sharp punch, I bet you can carefully prick the center of the bolt by eye. With care you can tap the SHARP punch lightly, once, to make a tiny mark; examine the mark.. if it's off center, tilt the SHARP punch in the direction you want the hole to go, like 45 degrees, and tap once again. Repeat until you get it centered by eye. Take a minute or two or three to stare it at. You'd be surprised how good your eye is and finding centers.
Once you got it as close as you can, give it a harder whack -- did I say SHARPEN THE PUNCH enough? lol -- to make a good ding, THEN drill it. Slow and careful does it. Drill 1/8" first. Buy a NEW SHARP bit. (I have a really nice US made drill set but I buy small fistfuls of cheap 1/8" bits and toss 'em fairly often. SHARP SHARP SHARP!) * you won't hit it dead-center (maybe you will :-) * you won't drill it square in (maybe you will :-) Maybe you will, but you can't rely on perfection. Drill 1/8", THEN drill it out 5/16", or .010" smaller with a SHARP bit. If you get it right, you can pick the threads out. if not, it'll be off center or crooked. OK fine. This ain;'t a head bolt, it won't ruin things. Run the tap through it... When the tap encounters resistance, STOP, back the tap all the way out. Back in, resistance, no more than 1/4 turn. You can't hurry this stuff, especially if you're novice. Thinking back over all the messes I made, most were my own impatience. You cannot go too slow! If someone says they can do it faster, tell them to shut up :-) Drilling it not-square-to-the-block would be the worst error. Then, a bolt threaded in will be forced to bend as it turns, thats bad, could break it. So that's the thing to work at. THe "REAL" solution is to get a Helicoil kit. The idea is, you drill the hole oversized (eliminating the original threads entirely) with the special tap tap for the Helicoil insert, and with a special tool, insert a special spiral wire thread insert, that ends up being 5/16-18 threads. Personally I've never used one. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Hemirambler
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Joined: Jan/18/2012 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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Posted: Aug/28/2021 at 6:23am |
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Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more. The idea of a drill block or drill guide is to prevent exactly what happened to you. The block would consist of two holes - one sized very tight to the mounting fastener (the good hole) that's how you attach/position the block/guide to your engine. The other hole is sized for your tap drill size - or better yet your center drill size. The guide prevents the bit from drifting not only when you start but also as you progress. Depending on how awkward it is you can sometimes oval out a drill block/guide on accident which is why I suggested using the center drill. Center drills aside from being relatively short are also very stiff and generally drill exactly where you point them - very little drifting or walking off target - moreso if used with a block/guide. Now granted they aren't really intended to go much past just getting you started, but with lube and caution they surely will go much deeper, but you HAVE to clean the chips constantly as they aren't designed with deep or long flutes (no where for the chips to go)
By using said block - with two holes already set the correct distance apart = there's little chance of going astray. It's really never too late to use one - it just becomes a matter of size. IF buggered up beyond help - you may have to consider going to an insert - helicoil or keensert style, stepped studs - whatever is your preference. Some times I have been creative with these where the drill guide also became the tapping guide as well to ensure the threads were tapped straight. In this case I'd have made it with lets say (for examples sake) a 3/8-16 threaded hole on one side and a 5/16' CLEARANCE hole on the other. I'd use a 5/16" flat head screw thru the threaded hole to mount the guide. Then drill the 5/16 HOLE on the to be repaired side. Once at depth - I would remove the guide and flip it over. Mount with a 5/16 bolt into the good hole and now you have a threaded guide hole to tap your to be repaired side straight. Sounds elaborate maybe but has worked good for me more times than not. YMMV Jacin in Ohio
Edited by Hemirambler - Aug/28/2021 at 6:40am |
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1964 American Convertible (stock)
1964 American Hardtop (Not Stock) |
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S Curry
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Joined: Aug/16/2012 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 598 |
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Posted: Aug/28/2021 at 8:39am |
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Well for what its worth and I have done it...leave it up to you. First thing..if it is a cast iron block read on.
Get a cutting torch. Heat the remainder of the bolt in the block cherry red. Hit the oxy. It will blow out the bolt. Clean it out with a bottoming tap. Cast iron takes alot more heat and doesn't as quick as the bolt.. Again..take caution. I haven't done it in about 50 yrs....
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SC
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scott
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Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Wildwood Pa. Status: Offline Points: 3502 |
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Posted: Aug/28/2021 at 10:55am |
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If you are going to drill it, I'd use a left hand drill bit, run your drill motor in reverse. Since the bolt did not break off due to rust, the left hand bit & reverse on the drill motor may spin the broken piece out as you drill. Its worked for me.
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"Prolly" is not a word.
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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Posted: Aug/28/2021 at 10:30pm |
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Or entirely punt -- block off the mechanical pump and go electric. My go-to pump is Carter P60504, about 40 bucks. They need to be mounted back at the tank. One quarter-inch hole and bolt, or a big sheet-metal screw. Electric vane pumps PUSH where mechanical diaphragm pumps PULL. YOu need to run a wire to it from at a minimum ignition-switched power, but for safety, a three-legged oil pressure switch ($10 jeep part).
The P60504 puts out 4 psi max and has 5/16" nipples and so is completely compatible as-is with all carburetors, even fussy Webers. They deliver more than enough fuel. I've always stuck with mechanical pumps and vacuum wipers, they were perfectly fine, as good as electrics, in spite of countless HOT ROD articles to the contrary, and many peoples anecdotes. You just gotta have good pump and good motor. But my recent pump, built by Arthur Gould, for $150 and six weeks wait time, doesn't work for s**t, it caused me great grief with a newly on the road car, and no way I'm gonna rely on this nonsense in a daily driver. They've become too exotic and I ain't rich. While this isn't your problem, it neatly side-steps your broken bolt problem. Get or make a block-off plate, get the mounting surfaces 100% oil free, use good sealant (Permatex Ultra Gray), one bolt will do with that stuff sealing it. And move on. This is your first motor, you don't need perfection. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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PROSTOCKTOM
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Joined: Jun/20/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 2458 |
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Posted: Aug/29/2021 at 5:19am |
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I was looking at YouTube and this video showed up in my suggested videos,
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Molnar Technologies Full Service Dealer - Crankshafts & Connecting Rods
1969 AMC Rambler Rouge Race Car 1974 AMC Hornet Hatchback, Wally Booth Outlaw Nostalgic Pro Stock Race Car Project |
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Posted: Aug/30/2021 at 7:46am |
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The heli-coil kit works on something like this. I've used them before. The bolt is broke off slightly below the block so the drill bit will center itself. Of course you could just go to the next size up (there's plenty "meat" in the block there) and tap. You might have to drill the hole on the fuel pump out a bit for the larger bolt. A heli-coil will probably work best. But I'd try a 1/4" or smaller reversed drill bit first. As noted, that sometimes pulls the bolt out before drilling through.
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Frank Swygert
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