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Broken bolt inside block : removal question. |
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1958 rambler super
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
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Posted: Aug/25/2021 at 4:02pm |
Broken off bolt inside fuel pump flange of block..... Used bolt extractor and was happy with having success but when unscrewed it out I noticed it was broken off in two prices, the other 1/4 inch or so is still Inside..... I think it is pretty dangerous for the attempt to be made again using the drill and extractor tool process as the exposed threads inside that one bolt hole in the block of the fuel pump flange could get damaged.... And using center punch to mark a good drill spot is very unpracticle due to the depth of the remainv piece of bolt, and also engine is of course installed limiting access to that point of view.
I have a tap and die set, I could drill out the entire bolt hole, with the rest of the bolt and retap the larger hole, but I was wondering if anyone knows if the casting around that area is thick enough to accommodate such a operation, and I do t want a whole bunch of metal shavings to be spewed into the crank case if that bolt hole is open ended into the crank case. The remaining piece of broken off bolt only allows about 4 threads of a bolt to be threaded into the block untill the bolt bottoms out against the broken off bolt. Would using a small bolt and appropriate amount of loctite work to hold the bolt and pump o the block during it's operation?
Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/25/2021 at 4:06pm |
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nickleone
AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/04/2008 Location: westminster co Status: Offline Points: 1445 |
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nick
401 71 Gremlin pro rally car sold 390 V8 SX/4 pro rally car sold 1962 Classic SW T5 4 wheel disc brakes |
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 426 |
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If I can't find a piece of tubing smaller than the internal thread/larger than the dill I often make one out of a soda can. I just cut myself a strip of aluminum, wrap it around the drill bit and tape it to keep it from unraveling. This way the drill bit can spin but not contact the threads.
If you are concern about the drill staying on center due to a rough surface at the break you might be able to get a Dremel in there and either flatten it, or create a low spot at the center so the drill doesn't walk. Even if you bugger up a thread or two the internal thread will still have grip at the root. Also, if the clearance allows to slide the pump on/off you might try using a stud (probably need all-thread in this case) and see if the 4 threads are strong enough to hold. But at least this way the nut can be threaded down all the way and any rotational wear is on the stud, not the threads in the block.
Edited by wittsend - Aug/25/2021 at 6:51pm |
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'63 American Hardtop
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Hemirambler
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/18/2012 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 197 |
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If it were me, I'd find someone with a mill to make a drill block. Size the drill block to use a center drill (they dont drift sideways like a regular bit would). The drill block/guide will keep the location correct - you could even use removeable inserts and step the size up as you progress.
Sound extreme? Perhaps, but how devastated will you be if it gets screwed up. YMMV Jacin in Ohio |
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1964 American Convertible (stock)
1964 American Hardtop (Not Stock) |
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1958 rambler super
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
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Hi Nick, I watched that video previous to the attempt, but just wanted o go ahead and try sort it out with using that stuff hoping what I was going to do, which I saw in another one of that guys videos would work, it did, but not entirely....
Hi wittsend, the stud idea is Intersting, but I think I'm past that now.... Or maybe not... If I need to drill it out and retap the hole I could use a stud.... Hi hemirambler, the block idea sounds good to guide the drill, but I also think I may be past that idea now, as this morning I tried to drill out a portion of the high edge of the broken off bolt while holding the drill against it and slowly carefully drilling and carving away at it and use a diff set of bolt extractor, but after several attempts I think I've exhausted it's opportunity to be effective, there just wasn't enough of a piece of bolt left for that method o work, and now at this point I've found that out, bit it also has made the other ideas of guiding the drill bit, or shielding it with a piece of pop can ineffective, I think it might be too late for those ideas as what I kept hoping would work didn't and now I think I've started to drill past the bottom of the bolt hole and into the block... I think I'll have to drill it out and retap the hole.
Also, I'd like to ask, since I'm not devastated by what's happened, if I should be? What would be so wrong with having to drill out and retap? Is it not possible for some reason? Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/26/2021 at 4:55pm |
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THE MENACE
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/04/2008 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 4439 |
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If it's a 3/8" course thread fuel pump bolt you could use one of the exhaust manifold retaining bolts that has the 5/32" hole through it as a drill guide to get you centered, then a larger drill bit, then a screw extractor.
(First you will need to drill the hole in the exhaust bolt all the way through the head of the bolt because the hole is only about 1/2" deep in those exhaust bolts).
I did that once to remove a broken bolt in the front of a Cyl. head once and it worked great. Dennis |
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Former Owner of:
The Craig Breedlove "AERO AMX" Still Owner: SS/AMX #9 replica (THE BIG MENACE) 70 AMX 416, EFI, Nash 5 speed 70 Javelin 401, 727 (Wife's car) 72 Gremlin Autocross Project. |
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1958 rambler super
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
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It's a 1/2 head size 5/16 thread shaft size, so no help from exhaust manifold! Thanks for the idea though.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Bummer. Hemirambler's idea of a "drill block" (I wouldn't have known to call it that) is probably the easiest.
It is a 5/16-18? (NC, National Coarse) thread. Get someone to drill one lengthwise for you, use that as a guide. Are you sure there's more broken-off bolt in the hole? That would be odd -- what torques would cause the tip of a bolt to remain behind? If you extracted the top part, closest to outside, thread in a bolt, and measure how deep the bolt catches threads. If 1/4" or more, I'd call it a day and use a shorter bolt. There's not THAT much load on those bolts. Less than ideal, but cost/benefit... Now metal chips will fall into the pan, but they will settle to the bottom, and drift to the drain plug in days weeks or years. If they settle on a ledge, just maybe they'd end up in the pump and circulate. But unlikely. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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1958 rambler super
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
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Yup, I'm sure! Here's a pic.
I was careful metal chips from drilling didn't get into the opening for the pump, so Im confident no shavings from the drilling will be inside.
Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/27/2021 at 11:05am |
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 426 |
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Again, if you have a Dremel you can grind the face of the broken bolt. Either get it flat or a slightly concaved center. Then Center punch and drill to the necessary extractor size. Sometimes if you get the hole well centered you can literally drill the hole increasing in size until you can pull the threads of the bolt out and not even use an extractor. As to drilling depth use the other hole as a reference. Then put tape on the drill bit as a stop indicator. That should keep you from drilling into the block
If drilling gets a bit off center (eating a portion of the thread) using the mentioned stud and some JB Weld should hold up well. As TomJ stated there isn't that much force on the bolt.
Edited by wittsend - Aug/27/2021 at 1:57pm |
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'63 American Hardtop
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