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"1958 Rambler Super" mission fix it and drive it.

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2023 at 8:19am
troutwilly -- Did you look at the link I posted? Just quickly reading through what you  what you just posted I think you've got it.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2023 at 2:42pm
There's some info I didn't post yet.... And I hadn't read the recent posts here on my project page before I phoned the alt shop... 
Just on thursday I phoned the alt shop and asked them if it would be ok to connect the wires connected to the no charge indicator light in the dash to either of terminals "1f" and "2r" that were capped off and he said no way. 
But he said he could swap out the regulator (his words) so I can connect wires to those terminals, the alternator will still function the same it just isn't a 1 wire alt anymore....

So... I was thinking if I connect the wire that is for the no charge indicator  to either the "1" or "2" term of the alt that should let that light in the dash work.
Also, I was thinking, the horn wire that was prev connected to the volt reg at the "Bat" term could be able to be connected to the out put post of the alternator or the same post the output from the alt is ending on the starter sel. Because the horn relay is used with the horn button when it gets ground when pressed, then the relay closes and the horn sounds... 


Edited by 1958 rambler super - May/15/2023 at 3:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2023 at 3:19pm
Also, I believe I have realized a big problem with the grounding of the generator that could have been the cause of the problem..... 
 Looking at the wiring diagram I have noticed the generator was grounded with the engine block... And that ground was also provided to the volt reg... 

The engine block has been painted, so this place the gen sits on isn't a good ground! 
Also, the braket that holds the top ear is connected to a stud that the water pump slips over, this stud and also the braket is Rusty, also not giving it a good ground! 
so if the gen is taken off, and the paint under the block the gen is sitting on is removed or scrapped off the ground should be restored... 

But now that I think of it, the tests I did involving the ground post of the volt reg, would not have presented its results if that ground was insufficient.... So I guess this deduecment clears up that avenue of possibility.... 

but there's also the issue of the threads of the generator being damaged by my ignorance during most recent removal... So I think it might be a good idea to continue with the alternator install, since the threads that hold the gen are damaged and might not help it be mounted properly, I could do a helicoil job though....

Alot of folks have gave thier time typing out lots of things here, I appreciate it but I hope some people don't get frustrated. 


Edited by 1958 rambler super - May/15/2023 at 3:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2023 at 3:29pm
"Keep the black wire, it can be used as a ground wire for the alternator (the other end is grounded at the voltage regulator)." - - - troutwilly post. 

Troutwilly, this is not a good ground, as the volt reg is insulated from the car because its mounted on three rubber cushions, and it's ground was supplied by the generator, so this ground for the alt will be insufficient. 
Unless the end of that wire is relocated off the volt reg... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troutwilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2023 at 10:35pm
Let's answer these questions.  But first let me say I have never done this and its scary telling someone else what to do because I would feel responsible if something were to go wrong.  I do have a 1-wire on my AMX but its was overly simple as it came with the March serpentine system and I did a complete new wiring harness.

Frank, yes I did read your post ( I went back and re-read it to make sure it looked familiar).  I also read many others, and from all the info and studying the wiring diagram I came up with what I believed is what to do.  I'm feeling good about you thinking I got it right.

Tom ( I got the name right this time), several answers and comments for you:
- If you want that "Gen" light to work you will need the different alternator.  I believe it is referred to as a 3-wire alt, I think.  And Frank has it outlined in his post.  That can be done.  As long as you know its only the "Gen" light that won't work.  The rest of the gauges will not be affected.  And as far as knowing if the 1-wire alt is charging; at rest your volt gauge will (should) read right at 12v, but with the engine running and the alt being good it should show 13+v.
- Your horn will still work.  Of the wires that are removed from the "Bat" term and connected to each other; one comes straight off the pos term on the starter solenoid (which is subsequently connected straight to the battery), one goes to the horn relay, and one feeds your ignition switch.
- As long as you have the black wire from the generator to the ground on the VR, you're OK.  There are enough other contact locations grounding the generator via its mounting.
- To remedy the damaged threads on the generator, I believe you could just drill out the hole and put a through bolt, washers, lock washer and nut on it.
- The black wire and grounding of the VR:  I've never thoroughly examined a VR like that but even with the rubber mounts, there should be grounding there.  So to check it, remove that ground wire from the generator, use your ohm meter and test for connectivity from the end of the wire removed from the gen to any ground in the engine bay.  If there is no continuity then move the wire on the VR from the tab to one of its frame mounting bolts, or simply run a wire from the alt ground bolt to the engine block.  If there's still no continuity then that black wire is bad.
- It just might be worth it to check all the wires from the gen to the VR for continuity.  Disconnect them at each end and touch your ohm meter probes to each end and make sure the wires are good.  Not looking for any specific value, just that the meter shows a complete unbroken wire.
Bill O.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2023 at 11:53pm
Ok I got the alternator back from the shop and it's a three wire alt now, I'll start figuring out the wiring and bracket stuff... Thanks for the help guys! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2023 at 11:34am
troutwilly pretty much summed up the wiring.  You can refer back to the link in my earlier also.

Connect the horn wire to the + battery post, not alternator.  You will have to lengthen the wire.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2023 at 10:47pm
In the context of swapping the generator for the alternator and not having to use the external volt regulator anymore... But still wanting to connect the no charge indicator light in the dash... 

How is the field wire supposed to be connected to the #1 terminal on the alt? If it ends at the volt regulator and the generator wiring is not being used anymore and neither is the volt regulator? 

Edited by 1958 rambler super - May/18/2023 at 11:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2023 at 11:07pm
Also, something interesting has happened in my pursuit to resolve the misfire that could be a wandering misfire due to a cracked head as you (farna) say.

I asked a freind of my dad's who used to build old cars and sell them for his opinion specifically to solve the misfire, he wanted to start all the way back at the beginning and make sure the timing was right, but he did not have any exp with this engine. 

He had me take out the plugs and find tdc for #1cyl on compression stroke, then send him pics of the timing marks on the balancer and had figured the first mark (after the tdc mark) was 5btdc, so with out touching anything with the dist, he had instructed me over text to set throttle screw back to zero, or factory, basicly I adjusted that screw to fully not touching the throttle for this experiment... I had mistakenly thought he ment reset both screws to factory, but I took that as also meaning set the idle screw back to fully closed... He corrected me shortly after the attempt was in progress and it was not going well. 

He had me disconnect the vacuum from the dist and plug the hose and I had disconnectd the vacuum hose for the windshile wiprs myself the day before but forgot about it and it was not plugged....

Anyways, when I tried to fire up the engine it wouldn't start, I suppose because the idle mix screw was completely closed, when the engine did run after I opened that screw the engine ran very badly, and was shaking badly, following his instructions I used the timing light to adjust the timing of the #1 cyl to what he perceived was 5btdc as per firing position in the tsm I have.

The engine still ran badly, he led me through various adjustments of the carb screws and the engine ran a little better but still performed like ten pounds of crap in a five pound bag.
Eventually he said he wouldn't be able to figure it out any further not being there, so I invited him over but he hasn't replied yet.

The engine was running happy before we tried these things, the engine still had a misfire but it sounded really nice, just like a oiled sewing machine.
The only thing I changed was a unhealthy connection at the end of one of the wires leading to the coil, and I did a good job and its clean and tight. 

The only things that were different after the engine ran so horribly were the adjustment of the idle mix and throttle screws, the disconnected vacuum hose for the vacuum wipers, leaving that port on the manifold open. 

and even after adjusting the timing using the light to what he believed was 5btdc, and also advancing the timing even more didn't bring it back to its previous performance.

So I wonder if I'm missing something here.... Why would resetting the carb screws cause the engine to shake so badly? Would the disconnected vacuum hose for the wipers cause the engine to shake like that?

When I rotated the engine at the harmonic balancer, the dist was still in the engine and untouched, so simply rotating the engine wouldn't do anything.... That wire I fixed shouldn't be the problem, I tested the resistance of the coil with the Digi multimeter that shouldn't do anything bad....what are your thoughts farna? 


Edited by 1958 rambler super - May/18/2023 at 11:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2023 at 12:53am
If I'm understanding what you're saying,  you disconnected the vacuum wipers and left that port on the intake manifold open? That would create a huge vacuum leak, and yes the engine will run like crap. I'd plug that port on the manifold off for now and leave the wipers disconnected, just to rule them out as another source of a vacuum leaks.
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