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Flat head combustion chamber

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2021 at 2:34pm
Well, they make things no one else does, and one-offs "ain't cheap".
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/02/2021 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by 43n 43n wrote:

Modern piston alloys and a thin ring package would be a nice plus

Recommended piston manufacturers?

I have custom forged Ariel pistons with very modern steel Honda 83mm rings in my 195.6 OHV.  OMFG! I had nice pics of them on my website but I can't find them! I'll find them later. They were not cheap, and the rings were very expensive. About 9:1.

If you go through piston catalogs you might even find pistons that are close enough to bore to, and ream for pins. ANything is likely to be more modern, and the flathead has flat-top pistons; no chance of finding the weird pop-up OHV pistons.

83mm plus/minus is not a rare bore size. Diameter, pin height are the key datums. Brand of original motor doesn't matter at all, and it'll likely be an import.



1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 American, 199ci, T14
AMC pages: http://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/02/2021 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

I've seen it Tom! 54 Nash Rambler four door. Pulling a hill trying to hold 60 mph with AC on would have been a challenge!

LOL! Yeah, "Hey honey, turn the A/C off and open the windows." Yeah, why was it now that people wanted V8's? 


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The original 172.6 used a 6.7:1 compression ratio.  Lots of things have been done to the Ford flat-head V-8, and all of that should apply to nearly any flat-head design. Except cooling issues. The exhaust was routed through the Ford V-8 head to the outer edge, holding a lot of heat in. The Cadillac flat-head V-8 had intake and exhaust manifolds on the "top" (inner) edge of the head to prevent this, but then you've got a lot of heat near the intake manifolds and carbs. In-lines are better suited to the flat-head design for this reason.

... yeah, those with MANIFOLDS!  The OHV has really crappy exhaust heat issues too, but not as bad as the flathead of course...

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 American, 199ci, T14
AMC pages: http://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 43n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2021 at 12:34am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

Originally posted by 43n 43n wrote:

Modern piston alloys and a thin ring package would be a nice plus

Recommended piston manufacturers?

I have custom forged Ariel pistons with very modern steel Honda 83mm rings in my 195.6 OHV.  OMFG! I had nice pics of them on my website but I can't find them! I'll find them later. They were not cheap, and the rings were very expensive. About 9:1.

If you go through piston catalogs you might even find pistons that are close enough to bore to, and ream for pins. ANything is likely to be more modern, and the flathead has flat-top pistons; no chance of finding the weird pop-up OHV pistons.

83mm plus/minus is not a rare bore size. Diameter, pin height are the key datums. Brand of original motor doesn't matter at all, and it'll likely be an import.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 43n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2021 at 12:51am
Oh I did see the Arias piston on your website
awhile back
It looked like a piece of fine jewelry! 

Guessing these are forged?… Certainly more expensive

For ordinary cast pistons I checked on eBay and found a set of 6 with pins at $240… Choose your typical oversize
Same supplier out of Cincinnati also listed them including rings for $320

Called Egge 2 days ago.. they said they have no pistons for the 196 flat head in stock nor do they plan to make anymore.

I asked him what would be a typical price and he said last time they sold a set with pins they were $541.20… And of course the rings would be extra
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2021 at 11:37am
Originally posted by 43n 43n wrote:

...
Called Egge 2 days ago.. they said they have no pistons for the 196 flat head in stock nor do they plan to make anymore.  I asked him what would be a typical price and he said last time they sold a set with pins they were $541.20… And of course the rings would be extra.

The other day I commented that Pistons from Egge should be spelled Pi$ton$. But after reading this perhaps "priceless" would be more applicable - because there are no pistons to price. Cry From my recollection the inline 6 flathead goes back to 1940. That would make it 81 years old.

'63 American Hardtop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2021 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by 43n 43n wrote:

Oh I did see the Arias piston on your website
awhile back
It looked like a piece of fine jewelry! 

Guessing these are forged?… Certainly more expensive


ARIAS, right, sorry for the error.

Yeah, forged. Obviously they were a one-off, but with that part number I bet they have the design on record somewhere and could conjure up another set. They're in my fun motor. I'm soon gonna build a 195.6 OHV for a new car, it will get more ordinary fare. I have .060s but would rather save them; the block is now std bore and decent. I hate to chop all that life out of a very clean block.

I don't actually know what the pistons cost, but it was around $700. Dunno the rings either but the builder told me they were about as good as they get.

I seem to have lost the Arias piston photos. I'll try to find them... FOUND: https://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv/HEAD/images/forged%20pistons3.jpg from https://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv/HEAD/index.html



$540 is getting close to custom prices. But its a flat-top, theres a good chance you could find a compatible non-Rambler piston, maybe even a better one. Reamed for a new pin, rods bores/bushed. Never done it but I know it's done. Some specs in the Arias photo,.



Edited by tomj - Apr/04/2021 at 3:57pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 American, 199ci, T14
AMC pages: http://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/05/2021 at 6:54am
Really need to look at the second link -- those Arias pistons are real beauties!! Nearly $1000 for pistons and rings (assuming $200-300 for rings) is asking a lot for a stock rebuild though. If Egge isn't producing the pistons any more, I wonder if Kanter has a few sets left? Maybe they have another or use a different source? Otherwise it's NOS/NORS for those needing pistons in the future...  I still have a set of OHV pistons, I think they are 0.030" over, but might be 0.040"...  IIRC I bought rings with them.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/06/2021 at 12:10am
Yeah, I never had an engine like this before, and probably won't again, I can't afford the work or the parts. Learned a lot though. 

I think it's the flathead's that aren't made any more. I better go look. EDIT: No 195.6 pistons of any kind on Egge's site, nor Kanter's. I called Kanter, "will call you back".




Edited by tomj - Apr/06/2021 at 10:14pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 American, 199ci, T14
AMC pages: http://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 43n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2021 at 12:40am
I also called Kanters yesterday and questioned availability of 196 flat head pistons… Their website showed them at $40 apiece. 
    I had to state an oversize(.060”) ..he confirmed they had them in stock when he called me back after checking their warehouse    He did not know where they were manufactured 
     He also quoted that the piston ring set was $90
   
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