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Factory Carter AFB CFM Ratings Chart/Rebuild pics. |
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Ram Air Rick
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2668 |
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348AMX says:
Q: "May I ask a favor?"
A :Yes
Q: "In that book do they recommend blocking the hot idle air compensator valve?? This is the "winged" valve in between the secondary boosters."
A: As far as I have read in the book,it does not recommend blocking off the hot idle compemsator. As a matter of fact ,unless I missed it somewhere,the book does not say a whole lot about the HIC.
In does show one in the rebuilding section and goes on to say that :"It allows additional air to bleed into the intake manifold during high-temperature operation"
I wanted to know more so here's the skinny:
During prolonged idling periods ,when it is hot outside,the ambient underhood temps can get hot enough to start to vaporize fuel,that is in the carb.. When this occurs,the fuel vapors get sucked into the engine ,causing a rich condition. The HIC is a thermostatically controlled device (bi metal element) ,that when heated sufficiently ,will open a passage enabling air to flow into the intake ,thru a passage below the secondary throttle blades,to even out the rich condition. When the air around it cools sufficiently,it closes off the air passage and then the carb. goes back to normal operation.
I think it a matter of application as to blocking it off or not. If said carb is going on a stock car,then make sure that it's sealing properly ,as to not cause any unnecessary lean condition, and let it do it's job.
If you are looking to use that carb for race application then removing it and blocking it off may have some advantage, in cfm if nothing else,as it does cause small restriction to air flow.
Q: " As for the primaries there are 2 types of boosters; one without distribution tabs and one with, they are small aluminum strips installed at the bottom of the boosters to aid fuel distribution, does that book mention them at all? Thanks!
A: Yes! Here's what the book says:"However ,any booster design is limited in its ability to distribute fuel evenly around the throttle bore.When poor (on specific original equiptment applications where poor) maniflod designs compound this fuel distribution problem ,Carter engineers frequently add a tab or mill off a portion of the trailing edge. These modifications "shape" the low pressure area such that exiting fuel is pulled into a more desirable distribution pattern"
Make sense?
Hope this helps. I know that I learned from it. Rich C.
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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Thanks! The Hot Idle valve is a nice feature of these carbs but if they arent sealing properly it'll cause a vacuum leak, at WOT it really wouldnt matter anyway, but I saw a Mopar rebuild article once and they made a small metal cover over the vacuum hole. The aftermarket AFB's didnt have them and neither do the edelbrock AFB's - maybe to cut costs or from a functional standpoint-elimate potential vacuum leaks. There are many tweaks you can make to these carbs to make them race ready. All the edelbrock metering jets and rods will work as long as you change the rods and the jets in pairs and use the flat step up rod covers. You can order jets and metering rods individually from summit racing. I am going to start with the stock primary jets with 8% richer metering rods and bigger secondary jets as a base point to start with. Edited by 348AMX - Feb/07/2008 at 10:47pm |
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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OK so back to the rebuild. Here are some updated pics of the rebuild: Main body completely cleaned and inspected. I had initially dunked it in a bucket of carb/parts cleaner then rinsed it with carb cleaner spray. Blew it out with compressed air and then washed the whole thing in soapy water repeated with a carb spray can cleaner.
This pic shows the venturi clusters installed with new gaskets and torqued down, it's important to clean the "wells" underneath these clusters that are supplied fuel from the bowls:
This pic shows the cleaned bowl cover, all passages were blown out with compressed air. Choke plate has been cleaned and it is staying there but will be blocked open as it directs air flow to the boosters. Also note the flat metering rod cover that allows the use of edelbrock and 9000 series AFB rods and jets.
This pic shows the annodized accelerator pump linkage and idle adjustment screw that I swapped over from the 750 Comp AFB, I also installed the Pump from the 750:
Edited by 348AMX - Feb/09/2008 at 8:42am |
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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The original floats were still good. I tested them by submerging in very hot water and watching for bubbles that would indicate leaks, they checked out and didnt have any dents so they are ready to use. One thing to pay attention to is the surface that the needle rides on, it should be polised to smooth out any indents made by the needles moving across as the float moved up and down over the years:
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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These shots show the hot idle air compensator valve removed and installed. Below the bleed hole in between the secondary venturies. For high performance it can be blocked off by fabricating a small plate so there cant be any vacuum leaks that can mess up your idle mixture or allow extra air during part throttle or WOT to lean the mixture. When the valve is installed it covers that small area in between the venturi and booster, so by removing it you get a little bit more air over that big air valve below the booster. I have blocked heat risers in the heads so the intake isnt hot enough to cause vaoprs in the bowls for the valve to be needed anyway. Its just another source of a vacuum leak that should be addressed in one way or another. This picture shows the stock Raised Metering rod covers installed as compared to the flat ones shown earlier. The next pic shows the Valve installed and how it blocks some of the air flow.
Edited by 348AMX - Feb/09/2008 at 10:17am |
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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Updated info taken form the 390 intake thread:
AMC rated the carb @ 1.0 inch Hg, wich is a bit misleading, since at that rating the carb is flowing "only" 430 CFM! Carter rated the carbs at 1.5 and the same carb under Carters rating method nets 625 CFM. Facinating! Its a good illustration of how a CFM "rating" is totally subjective and can advertise the same carb as different sizes based on the parameters used. A lot of the advertised CFM ratings for carbs today are based on tests that assume a greater pressure drop @ WOT than what was used by the companies in the 60's. Double pumpers have a greater pressure drop @ WOT than Vacuum secondaries carbs since you can open up all the barrels instantly at any RPM and thus cause a greater pressure drop than is possible than with a vacuum secondary carb for the same given RPM, this also creates a denser mixture and more power when the carb is tuned right. THe advertised numbers for holleys today would be less if they used the method for CFM common in the late 60's. But bragging to you'r local cruise night pals that you 3310-2 flows 780 CFM sounds a lot better than 575, and it makes for great marketing. If your engine can create the pressure drop at wot advertised for a given carb than that is what it will flow, if the pressure drop your engine creates is less then the tested drop for the carb you are using the carb will flow LESS than the advertised CFM. This is why the same carb could flow different CFM'S on different engines @ WOT. Edited by 348AMX - Feb/25/2008 at 5:21am |
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Ram Air Rick
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2668 |
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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Ya after I read the scan of the AMC document in the "390 intake" thread it all made sense and I remembered that is what you were trying to explain. So now we have a pretty good batch of info on the AMC carter carbs and how carbs are "sized" in general.
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acr3
AMC Fan Joined: Mar/30/2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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About the Corvette AFB rated at 575 CFM, I believe it had a smaller diameter air horn, 4-1/4" or so, while the newer AFB's have a 5-1/8" air horn. That might explain the difference in CFM.
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