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Complt Brak syst rebuild ACHIEVED

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1958 rambler super View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Complt Brak syst rebuild ACHIEVED
    Posted: Oct/20/2022 at 8:09pm
Hi guys, after taking a members advice on rebuilding my brake lines due to rust in the brake fluid when I bled them, I made that one of my future projects.
Recently I had begun replacing the brake lines, buying new ones that were pre made but also using a flaring tool when I needed to shorten a length or when I bot a 25 ft roll of brake line. I never used a flare tool before, but I thought I had done a good job at teaching myself how to use it, comparing the flares on the ends of the premade pipe to what I had formed with the tool.
I replaced all the lines hard and soft, bot two new old stock front wheel cyls and restored the other two at the back of the rambler, and also put on a new master cyl from rock auto, which was identical. 
I reused the old four port junction block that sits on the firewall, but bot a new three port junction block at the back axle and bot a new two port union after the four port junction. 
Yesterday me and my neighbor frank who used to sell ramblers in the sixties tested out the brake syst I built. There was a few leaks that I apparently fixed by tightening the nuts at the compression fitting locations and upon further brake pedal pressing and inspection with the flashlight, and wiping with a cloth to see if there was new fluid coming out, I thought I had most of them fixed, other then the concerning super tiny amount of fluid wetting the area near the very thin copper washers on either side of the hollow bolt that screws into the end of the mc. Those copper washers have circular patterns stamped into them that fit into corresponding impressions on the old hollow bolt, this is obvious to me as a possible leak as the copper washers are old and have already been compressed. (might have to do a fact check on that) But after work today I went to check and see if the leaks increased or if new ones presented them selves and the answer was yes, I emptied the fluid from the lines by bleeding the brakes at both rear wheels.
Now I think what I have to do is do all of the work all over again, this time with a different flare tool, I want to try a different brand, and I wrecked the one I used for the whole job, the larger size brake line 5/16 was too much stress for it, right at the end of the job of using it to flare all of those lines the tool broke, and I had to use the small vice I have to compress on end and a C clamp to compress the other end of the flare tool, it was kinda nuts. 
I also want to read some things online about the technique of flaring, which I didn't do the first time. 
Anybody got any advice as to how to not waste all that time all over again? That advice would be appreciated!



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Mar/23/2023 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbwicz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2022 at 8:38pm
Did you do double flares?  You make a bit of a ball on the end of the tube, and then fold the tubing back into itself.

I put a little anti-seize on the back side of the flare, where the nut rubs against it.  That helps reduce friction when you tighten the nuts.

You can take one of the old copper washers to an old-school auto parts store.  There are plenty of cars that use copper washers in brake systems, you should be able to get a replacement that is close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2022 at 10:27pm
Nope, I only did single flares... I also cleaned up the finished flares with 600 sand paper, forgot to mention that... didn't do the double flare procedure. Next time around I'll try do the double flare and with a better flaring tool, diff brand. That's also nice to hear about the copper washer suggestion, thanks! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote bigbad69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2022 at 10:36pm
You need to do double flares, and not all flaring tools are created equal. I had leaking problems using a cheap Princess Auto flaring tool. Spend a few more bucks for a quality tool.

I also found the nickel-copper lines are soooooo (ooo) much easier to work with than steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bikerfox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2022 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by bigbad69 bigbad69 wrote:

You need to do double flares, and not all flaring tools are created equal. I had leaking problems using a cheap Princess Auto flaring tool. Spend a few more bucks for a quality tool.

I also found the nickel-copper lines are soooooo (ooo) much easier to work with than steel.

Completely agree with BB69.  Cheap flaring tools are nearly worthless unless you get lucky making a double flare w/o leaks.  The "good" flaring kits are quite expensive.  Might be worth it to bring it to a mechanic who already has the kit, esp. if this is a one-off experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/21/2022 at 8:47pm
You need the real flaring tool.  And do not use SST lines.  The eastwood flare tool is supposed to be awesome.  
Do not use copper washers again; they are not expensive.  No new copper washer should have patterns stamped into it- that's scoring from tightening on a used washer.  A new washer should be smooth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/21/2022 at 9:57pm
Ok, so I should be able to find thin copper washers fairly easy I hope. I'll buy a new flaring tool tomorrow, and switch to copper nickel lines next time, also, I'll try and do the double flare this time around, I didn't know it was nessesary.
I saw there was concerning rings cut into the seats of the  seating areas on the four port junction block... this also might be why it leaked at that spot.
Apparently your not supposed to tighten the crap out of them, but when it startd leaking I thought I should and did, hope I didn't ruin those seats. The one new wheel cyl leaked really bad, maybe it's the new soft lines? I looked at the new ones and old ones and saw they were identical.. Don't know why it would leak like that.. I checked to see if a machine shop could resurface the seats of the junction block and explained thoroughly and also sent a real good picture, and they sadly said they didn't have the set up to do that work.
What would be the bets way to get those seats resurfaced? I dont think the wheel cylinders will be wrecked, since the seat, at least for the front wheel cylinder is what I would call a depression seat... It is a cone shaped seat machined downwards... But if I can't find a new four port junction block, I've looked but haven't found one yet, maybe I'll have to get the seats resurfaced at a high cost, or maybe try and find some new junctions or some adapters? the line leading away from the mc is a bigger size, going into the larger port of the four port junction block, then the three other ports are the normal size brake lines leading away to the other brake lines and junction blocks. 


Edited by 1958 rambler super - Oct/23/2022 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6768rogues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/22/2022 at 8:28am
Double flares are necessary and the Eastwood tool with the lever handle works great. You also mentioned leaks at compression fitting locations. I hope that was a mistaken term (did you mean flare fitting?) because compression fittings should never be used in brake lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73hornut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/22/2022 at 9:45am
The way you bent the hard line you will never get the air out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/22/2022 at 9:52am
Copper-Nickel brake line, double flare, lube the back of the flare as stated above.
The block surfaces should just need cleaning with a soft brush and brake cleaner, these typically don't wear unless they are pitted from corrosion.
If all the fittings leaked I'd bet the flare tool was 37 degrees and your fittings are 45 degrees.

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