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Build Thread - 71 Javelin Road Racer
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FuzzFace2 View Drop Down
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Points: 10356 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/29/2010 at 9:45am
Besides the better brakes, yes I can see it down the road but you may find you need it sooner, I would rethink the steering from man. to P/S. Add a cooler to it and should be good but I am thinking after a few laps with the man. box your arms may fall off or feel like they will. Remember it's not only your arms but your whole body is used to move a man. box to steer and this will fatiuge you faster.
Just my thinking after racing Jeeps off road with a man. box and I was in my early 20's back then.
Dave ----
TSM = Technical Service Manual

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70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
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Originally posted by prostreetamx prostreetamx wrote:

I believe the Control Freak front suspension uses a steering rack. If you really plan to push the limits of this car, you will want to upgrade the front brakes since parts for the 71-74 Kelsey Hayes brakes are getting tough to find. I am waiting to upgrade to oversize willwoods myself. I have a disc brake equipped 8.8 rear in my javelin with 3:73 limited slip gears that I got complete for $350, much cheaper than just the disc brake kit for the model 20. My car has a full Air Ride setup since the Control Freak stuff wasn't available when I started my project.
 
You're right on the steering rack.
 
Might try to get by for one season with the stock brakes.  What parts are tough to find?  Rotors?  Pads?  Hoses?  I have a few spare calipers and rotors.
 
Assume your 8.8 was a factory disk brake rear from a leaf spring equipped vehicle.  If so, what did it come out of?  Do you know what the distance was between the spring mounts?  Same as a stock AMC 20?
 
Thanks,
 
Scott
Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

Besides the better brakes, yes I can see it down the road but you may find you need it sooner, I would rethink the steering from man. to P/S. Add a cooler to it and should be good but I am thinking after a few laps with the man. box your arms may fall off or feel like they will. Remember it's not only your arms but your whole body is used to move a man. box to steer and this will fatiuge you faster.
Just my thinking after racing Jeeps off road with a man. box and I was in my early 20's back then.
Dave ----
 
Dave -
 
Looks like the road race folks are running both P/S and manual boxes.  I much prefer the feel and simplicity of a manual box and the weight savings won't hurt, either.  I'm also not a small guy at 6'4" and 230#, so might be more able than some to deal with manual steering induced fatigue.
 
However, if it ends up beating me up, I'll swap to power steering.  Will run a cooler on it, of course.  I have an Eaton pump and a Saginaw pump; not sure which would work better.  There's also a company that modifies these to give you more road feel, too; there was a thread on this a few weeks ago that I saved in my notes. 
 
Thanks,

Scott
Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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Points: 10356 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/29/2010 at 9:43pm
I do remember that post on the pump & road feel. I know with any project where you are going down a road you have never been down before you have to start somewhere so might as well build it the way you want, stock brakes & man steering, and see what it works for you and go from there.
Dave ----
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70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
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You'd want power steering too with 13" wide slicks up front!
Straightaways are for fast cars...turns are for fast drivers
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Are you planning to race this in a sanctioned group like the SCCA or just take it to some track day events? Your car would qualify for the SCCCA "Vintage class" for example, but there are limitations on what you can do to it as there are with many other race classes. For track day events it doesn't matter, but if you get hooked which you probably will if you do some track day events, then you may want to start wheel to wheel racing and would be nice to have your car set up for that type racing already without having to re-do the whole car to meet class requirements. Just a thought.
Adding that aftermarket front steering setup would immediately knock you out of most classes.
 
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My 8.8 is the common Explorer rear. The Mercury version has torque links. The spring pads don't work but new mounts are pretty easy to get. I used an Air Ride 4 link so it didn't matter where the stock mounts were but it is much easier to remove 2 leaf spring brackets than the 4 link stuff youi will find on many 9" rears. The 9" in my 77 AMX came from a 4 link Torino. It was a lot of work removing all the stock brackets on that one for the ladder bar mounts. The Kelsey Hayes brakes are getting tough to find parts for. That includes rotars, calipers and flex lines. Pads are pretty common since Chrysler used these also.
Richard Payne

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Originally posted by amxess amxess wrote:

Are you planning to race this in a sanctioned group like the SCCA or just take it to some track day events? Your car would qualify for the SCCCA "Vintage class" for example, but there are limitations on what you can do to it as there are with many other race classes. For track day events it doesn't matter, but if you get hooked which you probably will if you do some track day events, then you may want to start wheel to wheel racing and would be nice to have your car set up for that type racing already without having to re-do the whole car to meet class requirements. Just a thought.
Adding that aftermarket front steering setup would immediately knock you out of most classes.
 
amxess
 
Plan is to start out in Nat'l Auto Sport Association (forums here - http://www.nasaforums.com/) running High Performance Driving Events (HPDE).  After climbing the HPDE ladder (steps 1-4), if I'm enjoying it, plan is to jump to American Iron (AI).  That's why I'm following the AI rules (http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/american_iron_rules.pdf) for the build.  Plan is to have a car that can be easily turned into an AI car; do not want to have to do anything except gut the doors, add window net, door bars, etc.  As I read it, Freakride front suspension is legal for AI; rules on suspension deal mainly with shock towers:   

7.3.2 All cars must have OEM front and rear shock towers in the same location as stock. AI cars must utilize the OEM rear shock towers for rear shock attachment. Attachment of camber or caster adjusting devices is unrestricted. The OEM rear shock tower must be intact and the shock mount must pass through the original hole in the tower. The tower may be modified to install shock mounts, reinforcements, or spacers but the OEM assembly must remain in place.

7.12.1 Control arm mounting points are unrestricted on all cars but may not violate any rules herein. 

Thanks,

Scott
Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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Originally posted by prostreetamx prostreetamx wrote:

My 8.8 is the common Explorer rear. The Mercury version has torque links. The spring pads don't work but new mounts are pretty easy to get. I used an Air Ride 4 link so it didn't matter where the stock mounts were but it is much easier to remove 2 leaf spring brackets than the 4 link stuff youi will find on many 9" rears. The 9" in my 77 AMX came from a 4 link Torino. It was a lot of work removing all the stock brackets on that one for the ladder bar mounts. The Kelsey Hayes brakes are getting tough to find parts for. That includes rotars, calipers and flex lines. Pads are pretty common since Chrysler used these also.
 
Sounds like a lot of folks are using the Explorer rear.  One option I have is a 9" taken from a 69 Cobra (428 CJ equipped Fairlane).  It has 31 spline axles, nodular case, but the case has the smaller bearings (2.892" vs. 3.25") with the small bearing housing ends.  It's the right width (54.25" wide from flange to flange; the AMC 20 is 55 7/8" wide flange to flange), but spring perches are off (it's 44.5" from center perch to center perch; AMC 20 is 43.5").  The 71-73 Mustang rear is wider at 56 1/4" from flange to flange, but it's 43" to centers on the perches - should be able to make this work.  Right now I'm leaning towards using the AMC 20 for now, with upgraded axles and a spool or locker.  When I upgrade, I can get a new full floater new Ford like this one:  http://www.9inchfloater.com/CompleteRrEnd/CmplteRrEnd_28_31.htm - that's what Asif is using in his American Iron build. 
 
Appreciate the info on the brakes.  I'll see if I can scrounge up some more spares.
 
Thanks,
 
Scott
Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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After doing quite a bit of research on fabrication/road racing shops, I decided to go with Piper Motorsports in Sterling, Virginia (www.pipermotorsports.com).  Piper is a well-known outfit, no shortage of positive comments on their work, and haven't been able to find anyone who had anything negative to say about them.  It's a very professional outfit with a nice shop, too, and fabrication on road racing cars is what they do for a living; not an afterthought.

Piper will be installing a complete custom cage (to NASA American Iron Specs) in 1.75" x .120 mild steel.  They will also mount the Kirkey road race seats, fix the rear quarter windows in place.  They'll be starting on the car next week.  I'll post more pics when I have them. 
 
Pics below.  Felt kind of bad about bringing the car in there is such a motley state, but the new paint will come after the mechanical work is done.  Yes, that's a factory fiberglass hood with the functional cowl induction; may swap out for an aftermarket fiberglass hood and sell that one to someone who want/needs one for a resto. 
 
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Scott
 
 
Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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