TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Broken bolt inside block : removal question.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

Broken bolt inside block : removal question.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
Author
Message
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Broken bolt inside block : removal question.
    Posted: Aug/25/2021 at 4:02pm
Broken off bolt inside fuel pump flange of block..... Used bolt extractor and was happy with having success but when unscrewed it out I noticed it was broken off in two prices, the other 1/4 inch or so is still Inside..... I think it is pretty dangerous for the attempt to be made again using the drill and extractor tool process as the exposed threads inside that one bolt hole in the block of the fuel pump flange could get damaged.... And using center punch to mark a good drill spot is very unpracticle due to the depth of the remainv piece of bolt, and also engine is of course installed limiting access to that point of view.

I have a tap and die set, I could drill out the entire bolt hole, with the rest of the bolt and retap the larger hole, but I was wondering if anyone knows if the casting around that area is thick enough to accommodate such a operation, and I do t want a whole bunch of metal shavings to be spewed into the crank case if that bolt hole is open ended into the crank case.

The remaining piece of broken off bolt only allows about 4 threads of a bolt to be threaded into the block untill the bolt bottoms out against the broken off bolt. Would using a small bolt and appropriate amount of loctite work to hold the bolt and pump o the block during it's operation?



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/25/2021 at 4:06pm
Back to Top
nickleone View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Oct/04/2008
Location: westminster co
Status: Offline
Points: 924
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/25/2021 at 5:09pm
nick
Back to Top
wittsend View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Apr/15/2020
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/25/2021 at 6:49pm
If I can't find a piece of tubing smaller than the internal thread/larger than the dill I often make one out of a soda can. I just cut myself a strip of aluminum, wrap it around the drill bit and tape it to keep it from unraveling.  This way the drill bit can spin but not contact the threads.

If you are concern about the drill staying on center due to a rough surface at the break you might be able to get a Dremel in there and either flatten it, or create a low spot at the center so the drill doesn't walk. Even if you bugger up a thread or two the internal thread will still have grip at the root.

Also, if the clearance allows to slide the pump on/off you might try using a stud (probably need all-thread in this case) and see if the 4 threads are strong enough to hold. But at least this way the nut can be threaded down all the way and any rotational wear is on the stud, not the threads in the block.


Edited by wittsend - Aug/25/2021 at 6:51pm
'63 American Hardtop
Back to Top
Hemirambler View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Jan/18/2012
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 78
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemirambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2021 at 1:56pm
If it were me, I'd find someone with a mill to make a drill block. Size the drill block to use a center drill (they dont drift sideways like a regular bit would). The drill block/guide will keep the location correct - you could even use removeable inserts and step the size up as you progress.  

Sound extreme?  Perhaps, but how devastated will you be if it gets screwed up.


YMMV


Jacin in Ohio

1964 American Convertible (stock)
1964 American Hardtop (Not Stock)
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2021 at 4:44pm
Hi Nick, I watched that video previous to the attempt, but just wanted o go ahead and try sort it out with using that stuff hoping what I was going to do, which I saw in another one of that guys videos would work, it did, but not entirely....

Hi wittsend, the stud idea is Intersting, but I think I'm past that now.... Or maybe not... If I need to drill it out and retap the hole I could use a stud....

Hi hemirambler, the block idea sounds good to guide the drill, but I also think I may be past that idea now, as this morning I tried to drill out a portion of the high edge of the broken off bolt while holding the drill against it and slowly carefully drilling and carving away at it and use a diff set of bolt extractor, but after several attempts I think I've exhausted it's opportunity to be effective, there just wasn't enough of a piece of bolt left for that method o work, and now at this point I've found that out, bit it also has made the other ideas of guiding the drill bit, or shielding it with a piece of pop can ineffective, I think it might be too late for those ideas as what I kept hoping would work didn't and now I think I've started to drill past the bottom of the bolt hole and into the block...
I think I'll have to drill it out and retap the hole.
 Also, I'd like to ask, since I'm not devastated by what's happened, if I should be? What would be so wrong with having to drill out and retap? Is it not possible for some reason?



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/26/2021 at 4:55pm
Back to Top
THE MENACE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/04/2008
Location: So. California
Status: Offline
Points: 3926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THE MENACE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2021 at 6:00pm
If it's a 3/8" course thread fuel pump bolt you could use one of the exhaust manifold retaining bolts that has the 5/32"  hole through it as a drill guide to get you centered, then a larger drill bit, then a screw extractor.

 (First you will need to drill the hole in the exhaust bolt all the way through the head of the bolt because the hole is only about 1/2" deep in those exhaust bolts). 

I did that once to remove a broken bolt in the front of a Cyl. head once and it worked great. 

Dennis  
Home of:
Craig Breedlove' "AERO AMX"
SS/AMX #9(THE BIG MENACE)
1970 AMX 416,EFI,5 speed(Mine)   
1970 Javelin 401, 727 (My Wife's)
1972 Gremlin Autocross Project.
Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2021 at 11:40pm
It's a 1/2 head size 5/16 thread shaft size, so no help from exhaust manifold! Thanks for the idea though.
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 6268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2021 at 11:52pm
Bummer. Hemirambler's idea of a "drill block" (I wouldn't have known to call it that) is probably the easiest.

It is a 5/16-18? (NC, National Coarse) thread. Get someone to drill one lengthwise for you, use that as a guide. 

Are you sure there's more broken-off bolt in the hole? That would be odd -- what torques would cause the tip of a bolt to remain behind?

If you extracted the top part, closest to outside, thread in a bolt, and measure how deep the bolt catches threads. If 1/4" or more, I'd call it a day and use a shorter bolt. There's not THAT much load on those bolts. Less than ideal, but cost/benefit...

Now metal chips will fall into the pan, but they will settle to the bottom, and drift to the drain plug in days weeks or years. If they settle on a ledge, just maybe they'd end up in the pump and circulate. But unlikely.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 American, 199ci, T14
AMC pages: http://www.sr-ix.com/AMC/

Back to Top
1958 rambler super View Drop Down
AMC Nut
AMC Nut
Avatar

Joined: Dec/10/2020
Location: Victoria BC can
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 10:51am
Yup, I'm sure! Here's a pic.
I was careful metal chips from drilling didn't get into the opening for the pump, so Im confident no shavings from the drilling will be inside.


Edited by 1958 rambler super - Aug/27/2021 at 11:05am
Back to Top
wittsend View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Apr/15/2020
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 218
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2021 at 1:55pm
Again, if you have a Dremel you can grind the face of the broken bolt. Either get it flat or a slightly concaved center. Then Center punch and drill to the necessary extractor size. Sometimes if you get the hole well centered you can literally drill the hole increasing in size until you can pull the threads of the bolt out and not even use an extractor.  As to drilling depth use the other hole as a reference. Then put tape on the drill bit as a stop indicator. That should keep you from drilling into the block

 If drilling gets a bit off center (eating a portion of the thread) using the mentioned stud and some JB Weld should hold up well. As TomJ stated there isn't that much force on the bolt.


Edited by wittsend - Aug/27/2021 at 1:57pm
'63 American Hardtop
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.074 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or