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Am I crazy or dedicated? T-150 / T-14 adapter |
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Fluffy73 
AMC Addicted 
Joined: Nov/21/2007 Location: Castlegar, BC Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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 Topic: Am I crazy or dedicated? T-150 / T-14 adapterPosted: Dec/01/2020 at 5:54pm |
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In this seemingly unending quest to add overdrive to my Gremlin, I've run into a bit of a snag.
I was suffering under the impression that all 3-speeds that AMC used share the same bolt pattern. Oh, how wrong I was. Seems the T-150 I want to use has a Ford-ish bolt pattern and the older T-14/T-15 have a square pattern. This would be fine if I were using a '72 and up engine, but I am not. My Gremlin is a '70½ and I'm heck bent on retaining usage of it's original engine. Unfortunately, I ran out of time and energy this summer to pull my Gremlin apart. Hence, I'm on the prowl for an early bellhousing. I have two later bells, but neither will bolt to the engine. My thought process at this point is that *IF* the early bells are indeed only 6" deep, that could be my saving grace. The T-150 bell is closer to 6.75" deep. That leaves me with 3/4" to make an adapter and still have my cross-member, shifter and driveshaft all remain the same. If the early bell is the same depth, I mean, it's still do-able, but a lot more will need to be modified to make it work. Shortening the driveshaft is no issue, and I guess worst case I can slot the mount holes on the cross-member.... but for some reason, I don't really want to have to do all that. I'm trying to make this as bolt-in as possible. Gotta make things harder for myself, right? I did have this crazy idea of re-drilling holes in the front of the T-150. It has nice, wide webbing that I could re-drill it for a narrower pattern, but, it looks like I might only get away with the bottom holes. The top holes would seriously be digging into the case itself. Does anybody have a '67-'71 6-cylinder, 3-speed bellhousing? Can you measure the depth for me? |
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I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
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Trader
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Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881 |
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Posted: Dec/01/2020 at 7:03pm |
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I believe this is what you may be looking for:
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brownspirit
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Joined: Mar/07/2009 Location: Georgetown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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Posted: Dec/01/2020 at 8:07pm |
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What is the P/N of the bell you need, I have a few 6 cylinder ones you can have if they would work. Andy
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69' BBB AMX 390/4-speed
69' s/crambler project 69’ International F210d Cummins/5+4 |
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Posted: Dec/01/2020 at 9:15pm |
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Yeah, you got the old motor pattern. Very limited transmission choices. The pre-72 six bellhousing has only one pattern, T14/T96.
THere's the MDL adapter to fit a T5. An AMC SR4 or T5 would fit if you chop the hole and make a new driveshaft. I assume the 199/232 doesn't have the volcano butt issue the 195.6 has? One real live trusty person on this forum had an actual real-life T14 with OD unit attached and operating. This to me would be wonderful. I've looked for years. T96... you don't want. Also there's pilot shaft hole (a huge PITA with the volcano butt 195.6), the T150 is unlikely to be the same as T96/T14, but easily checked. You may also need to engineer a solution to the throwout lever, bearing and sleeve, and trans nose. Rear motor mount: swapping a T14 in place of a T14, which I just did on my 68 American, you'll need a T14 motor mount but it bolts onto the x-member. Dunno T150. Make new shifter rods. Speedo cable issues. You will almost certainly have to make a new driveshaft, under $200 here in expensive LA. Each transmission above has a different overall length. The T150 I think has a different output yoke and different U-joint. You can buy half this/half that U-joints for this purpose. There is essentially zero chance of a bolt-in, no-mod solution for a transmission that was not available in the car from the factory, sorry. The T150 is a big blob of iron. Is it known to fit in a Gremlin? It might entail hump chopping. T14's and T96's are very small! Edited by tomj - Dec/01/2020 at 9:17pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Posted: Dec/01/2020 at 9:21pm |
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Sorry to be a downer, man, I wonder why I never get invited to parties, lol.
I heartily recommend ditching the T96. The T5 in my 61 American roadster transformed the car. For all the trouble, a lowly SR4 or T4 or T5 and the adapter, and the cutting, would make a night and day difference in the car. The T150 is huge and old. T5's with the 7.125" (something around there) are common enough. THe gremlin is certainly more roomy than the 61 American. The pre-72 trans selections just suck. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Trader
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Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881 |
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Posted: Dec/01/2020 at 10:31pm |
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Agree the T5 would be a great option. The bell above I believe is 6". A 1/2" spacer at the bell to engine or the transmission to bell (this would be easier) would make a T5 fit by length. The pattern should be 3 of 4 bolts line up with a Ford T5 and the 4th can be a drill and tap with reinforcement inside the bell (4500 lb epoxy build up works).
Clutch linkage is some fabrication. If you go hydraulic TOB, turn the bearing retainer down to a GM size and all the pieces will save you several $$$. Ford hydraulic is twice or more the price. For the $35, I'd buy the bell and measure things up as a first step.
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tyrodtom
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6213 |
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Posted: Dec/02/2020 at 11:29am |
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tomj , I think you've got the T-150 confused with the T-15.
I've got T-150, and 3 T-15s. If you call the T-150 a big blob of iron, what would you call a T-15 ? The T-150 came out of a 77 Gremlin, took it out myself. Two of the T-15s are out of Jeeps, the other is out of a 72 Matador. I took it out of that Matador, SW, Now it definitely is a hefty hunk of metal.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Fluffy73
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Joined: Nov/21/2007 Location: Castlegar, BC Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Posted: Dec/02/2020 at 7:20pm |
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The T-150 for sure fits the Hornet/Gremlin without issue. Don't forget, the factory used this tranny with the overdrives in '75/'76.
*IF* The early bell is only 6" deep, then there will be no issue. The front bearing retainer/snout of the T-150 is the same as the T-14/T-15. The later bell is 6.75" deep. That gives me 3/4" to make an adapter to mate my bell with a couple pieces of 1/4" steel that will create my new bolt pattern. Then everything else is literally bolt-in. I might have to slot the cross-member holes just so I have a little wiggle room fore and aft. I have the shifter, I have an overdrive yoke/driveshaft now, I have the overdrive cross-member and mount. I have the OD speedo cable and all the wiring is done. Pretty much the major hurdle is going to be either finding another early bell or, pulling my car apart to make an adapter. I just don't want to pull my car apart right yet because we're in the middle of winter and I'm in talks with several new body shops now who might be interested in taking on the project. Yes, this is all old school, and some do say that a T5 would be easier, and they're both right and wrong. Mating a T5 to the early bell brings the same issues: I'd have to make an adapter. Depending on which T5 I use, it will not line up with the factory shifter hole no matter what. I'd definitely have to cobble something together for a mount AND a yoke/shaft. It's probably MORE work to go SR4/T4/T5. Plus, the Electric Overdrive is just TOO COOL. Once I create an adapter, it's bolt-in. Edited by Fluffy73 - Dec/02/2020 at 7:23pm |
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I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
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Fluffy73
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Joined: Nov/21/2007 Location: Castlegar, BC Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Posted: Dec/02/2020 at 7:25pm |
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Andy, unfortunately, I don't speak in part numbers. Whatever the part number is for a bell that fits '67 through '71 232's with a 3 speed. |
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I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Posted: Dec/02/2020 at 10:40pm |
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I had a T150+OD, it was very large to me. I've not seen a T15 ever in my life.
Ahh, cool. The one I had was from a Pacer I think.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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brownspirit wrote: