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'76 304 HP Help

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Gremlin401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: '76 304 HP Help
    Posted: May/26/2023 at 7:13pm
I have a '76 Matador coupe. Has the stock 304. What's it's HP/TQ rating stock? I'm thinking about rebuilding it and spice it up some. Love to get 10:1 or close to it. 4 barrel intake as well. Maybe a mild cam. I'm sure it's been watered down by then. 
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Boris Badanov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2023 at 7:31pm
IMO
IF premium fuel only is no issue then you can easily  make a 304 shine.
Bump the compression to 10:1+ and a air gap manifold with a Eddy built Carter AFB
should easily see 200 hp at the flywheel. A little hotter cam and maybe 250.

Stock is 130-150 net.

1970 304s were rated at 210 but that was gross hp and likely a fairy tale.

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SC397 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2023 at 8:07pm
I will be the first to say it...
I would try to find a cheap 360 and rebuild that to replace the 304 if you want more power. You could continue to enjoy the car while getting a more powerful engine rebuilt. Dollar for dollar it is actually a little cheaper to rebuild a 360 than it is to rebuild a 304. 360's could be bought pretty cheap.
However if you are set on hopping up the 304 yea, a performance valve grind, aftermarket intake and cam will help it out a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2023 at 8:25pm
The 1974 2BBL 304 was rated at 150HP (only year I have a TSM handy for).
I had a 1977 304.  We bored it .030", 10.5:1 forged pistons (ran OK on premium pump gas).  I was running a .488 lift Isky cam, Edelbrock Torker manifold, Holley 600 CFM carb and headers.  The rotating assembly was balanced.   The heads were mildly ported and polished, running 1.94 and 1.50 Chevy valves.   It was doing just a little over 300HP.

Bob
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Edited by tufcj - May/26/2023 at 8:27pm
69 AMX
74 Javelin AMX
67 Rogue

If you need a tool and don't buy it...
you'll eventually pay for it...
and not have it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2023 at 9:23pm
Take all the extras put into the 304 that cost the same money and put them in a 360 and you easily have 50 more HP. With todays fuel, the Wiseco 9.5:1 would be the highest compression for pump gas and even stock 8.5:1 would likely net you the 350+ HP mark.
$ for $ the 360 is hands down the higher HP motor and the $ amount is almost exactly the same for either. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2023 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by SC397 SC397 wrote:

I will be the first to say it...
I would try to find a cheap 360 and rebuild that to replace the 304 if you want more power. You could continue to enjoy the car while getting a more powerful engine rebuilt. Dollar for dollar it is actually a little cheaper to rebuild a 360 than it is to rebuild a 304. 360's could be bought pretty cheap.
However if you are set on hopping up the 304 yea, a performance valve grind, aftermarket intake and cam will help it out a lot.
X2.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2023 at 6:40am
The primary argument FOR building the 304 would likely be related to fuel economy, vs. a 360. BUT the 304's advantage there, once you start building for more power, evaporates quickly. Yes, replacing the stock valves with larger diameter Chevy valves means lower-priced parts for better materials than stock 304 valves, but the machine work to fit the valves pretty much negates that advantage.

The place where a 304 will make sense is if you're repowering an older vehicle that came from the factory with a 90-100 gross HP six cylinder engine. going from a gross 90 HP to a gross 150 HP would be a 67% improvement there. There's no way to do that in your Matador unless you swap in a 360, and even then, unless you take a decent swing at it, the results won't be quite as dramatic as you're probably hoping. The 360 CAN be built more inexpensively than a 304, but after figuring in the cost of acquiring a decent core [$750 or so in my area], your $$ per HP gained is still going to be substantial.

What I'm trying to say is, building any AMC engine is never gonna be as cheap as building a SBC. Never was. But even then, the days of the $75 junkyard 283 and a $250 performance rebuild are long gone, and we'll never see those days again.

But if your heart's set on building that 304, do see about stepping up to at least 1.84/1.5 Chevy valves, and a decent TORQUE cam, if you're building it for the street. If it'll never be more than a sassy grocery-getter, consider an overdrive automatic swap and a ring and pinion change. And if you're going into the rear end, then the Dr. Diff 1-piece axles should be another upgrade. [See how quickly the COSTS are accelerating here?]


Edited by Buzzman72 - May/27/2023 at 6:51am
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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2023 at 9:02am
Originally posted by Buzzman72 Buzzman72 wrote:

The primary argument FOR building the 304 would likely be related to fuel economy, vs. a 360. BUT the 304's advantage there, once you start building for more power, evaporates quickly. Yes, replacing the stock valves with larger diameter Chevy valves means lower-priced parts for better materials than stock 304 valves, but the machine work to fit the valves pretty much negates that advantage.

The place where a 304 will make sense is if you're repowering an older vehicle that came from the factory with a 90-100 gross HP six cylinder engine. going from a gross 90 HP to a gross 150 HP would be a 67% improvement there. There's no way to do that in your Matador unless you swap in a 360, and even then, unless you take a decent swing at it, the results won't be quite as dramatic as you're probably hoping. The 360 CAN be built more inexpensively than a 304, but after figuring in the cost of acquiring a decent core [$750 or so in my area], your $$ per HP gained is still going to be substantial.

What I'm trying to say is, building any AMC engine is never gonna be as cheap as building a SBC. Never was. But even then, the days of the $75 junkyard 283 and a $250 performance rebuild are long gone, and we'll never see those days again.

But if your heart's set on building that 304, do see about stepping up to at least 1.84/1.5 Chevy valves, and a decent TORQUE cam, if you're building it for the street. If it'll never be more than a sassy grocery-getter, consider an overdrive automatic swap and a ring and pinion change. And if you're going into the rear end, then the Dr. Diff 1-piece axles should be another upgrade. [See how quickly the COSTS are accelerating here?]
  I have a mostly stock 304 in a 79 AMX.  Has the Holley Z  intake with the AVS, and SR4, 2.87s. And it does terrible  on gas.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2023 at 9:44am
That's the lead foot talking, 304, 360, 401 will all suffer from this condition:
" I have a mostly stock 304 in a 79 AMX.  Has the Holley Z  intake with the AVS, and SR4, 2.87s. And it does terrible  on gas."
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Boris Badanov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2023 at 11:48am
In my experiance with a stock 1970 304 with a 1970 390 intake on a Javelin SST
 the performance with a 600 Holley (forgot the part number) was
good but the fuel economy was pathetic.

With a comp series 600 carter AFB the performance was better
overall and maybe no better at wide open throttle but fuel economy was
at least as good as the stock Motorcraft 2BBL.

The exhaust crossover was blocked.


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