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63 Rambler American 440 shifting issue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2021 at 7:17am
Thank you for this reply.  I will see that our mechanic sees it.  He's been trying to get ahold of Galvins to see what they could tell him about this.  We are not set up to work on the car too much ourselves aside from oil changes and minor things.   Meanwhile the car developed some braking issues that will be addressed next week.  I was planning to have them looked at soon anyway....   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2021 at 10:41pm
It occurs to me to say, try shifting slowly, like comically slowly. Times have changed. THe T5 in my roadster you can pretty much shift as fast as you can clutch and move the lever. The old Borg Warner T96 3 speed you have takes nearly 800 - 1000 milliseconds to change gears -- literally a full clock second. Think 1941, not 2021. It is s l o w.  SLOW. Feel it change, it's very unsophisticated. 1 to 2 especially, 2 to 3 is better, 3 to 2 not bad if there's not a huge RPM/MPH difference, and anything to first, generally don't.

If you shift super crazy slow, and your problems all go away, there still could be a mechanical issue, but it may be a lot of ... attitude adjustment solves it!

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2021 at 6:09am
Thank you!  Yes, we have shifted quite slowly and sometimes it works and other times it does not.  There is a spot somewhere between N and 2nd that appears to be a sweet spot - sometimes when there has been trouble we've been able to find it and be on our way and sometimes not.  Even if we have to stop because she won't make it into 2nd and shift back into 1st and start again she sometimes isn't crazy about 1st gear either... .  Currently I'd say about 75-80% of the time the shifting works quite well but when it doesn't it doesn't. :(  So far never trouble shifting from 2nd to 3rd which is nice!  We think once the linkage play (not sure of exactly correct terminology) is addressed we will hopefully improve the odds of shifting correctly. :)   Currently she is garaged due to her brakes seemingly locking up the other night so that is next on the list for our mechanic who will be addressing that problem on Wednesday.  I was planning on having them redone soon anyway....   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2021 at 7:02am
That's where it can jam! When you pull back on the lever you're engaging the lever on the bottom of the column closest to the firewall -- first and reverse. When in first don't "grip" the shift lever -- just push it up the lever resting in the OPEN palm of your hand with light effort -- don't pull back at all. The springs in the shift mechanism will pop the lever toward the dash so that it engages the 2-3 lever on the bottom of the column. Just continue with light effort up and it will go right into second. Might take a little more effort after it pops forward, but not much. Spring in the shifter will keep the lever toward the dash, so don't grip to go into third -- just lay an open hand on top of the lever and push it down. Same going into second -- open hand, push up -- no need to push toward the dash.

Going from second to first or reverse is a little trickier. Move the lever up or down with just slight finger pressure toward the wheel. You will feel the "notch" and the lever will pull right into it easily. Then continue up or down into reverse or first.

You should NEVER downshift a pre 66 (might be 67...) three speed into first -- only in an emergency situation (like you've lost brakes). There is only ONE synchronizer between second and third -- that's it! you can chip teeth in first gear. Obviously you stop before going into reverse, should do the same in these cars for first, though it's generally safe to slip into first at 5-10 mph. 

Only one sychro was used originally to make the trans cheaper to build, and no one used first gear in the 30s and 40s anyway except to take off on hills or with heavy loads. Cars typically had lots of low speed torque (and low compression and rear axle gears -- few high speed roads) so you started in second and went to third. Most shifting was between those two gears. That was also why  the electric OD was popular -- even lower rear axle and an automatic high gear -- still only shifting between second and third (most of the time) but getting an additional gear without shifting or using the clutch. In town with OD you could start in second and use OD for "third" without using the clutch or shifting at all.

Driving changed after WWII and especially in the early 60s after large sections of the Eisenhower Interstate System started to open (construction started around 1958). The old style trannys were updated to have a synchro between first and second, and first became a more used gear with higher rear axle ratios.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2021 at 9:42am
Thanks for the advice.  We realize it is a delicate system and wasn't too great out of the gate I suppose.   I knew about the synch for 2nd and 3rd only so have been very careful not to shift into first or R unless at stopped.    Very interesting about the earlier cars only using 2nd and 3rd.  I guess 1st was the "granny gear."  The other day I was able to get moving from 2nd with little effort which surprised me a bit.  Anyway, thanks for the instructions about shifting - some of what you say we have been doing already and will work on the rest.   I really have enjoyed having the shifter on the column but the behind the scenes working of it make me appreciate my 2015 Jeep 6 speed! :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2021 at 11:07am
So (you've already told me this but I forget, sorry farna.) The 3speed column shifter gears are oriented like this.... Pulling the shifter towards the driver, and up is 2nd gear, pulling down from there is 3rd, going back to neutral and letting the spring pull the shifter back towards the dash, then lightly with open palm pushing up is 1st, and lightly with open palm pulling down is reverse.
Right?
Tomj recommends removing the steering column to do some work to help alieve the shifter hick ups, but I'll try doing it with steering column installed and hope I have success.... When I get to that... I hope my cousins nine year old boy didn't break it as much as I seriously fear he did when I let him play in the rambler driver's seat while I was talking to his mum.... It's more clunky now after he had his hands on it.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2021 at 12:32pm
The standard transmission column shift pattern is...pull back toward the driver and then UP is REVERSE. Pull back toward the driver and DOWN is FIRST. Toward the dash and UP is SECOND. Toward dash and DOWN is THIRD.

This is a UNIVERSAL pattern for ALL US-built vehicles with a 3-speed manual column shift transmission.

INCLUDING AMC.
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2021 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Buzzman72 Buzzman72 wrote:

The standard transmission column shift pattern is...pull back toward the driver and then UP is REVERSE. Pull back toward the driver and DOWN is FIRST. Toward the dash and UP is SECOND. Toward dash and DOWN is THIRD.

This is a UNIVERSAL pattern for ALL US-built vehicles with a 3-speed manual column shift transmission.

INCLUDING AMC.
and Ive had a few 3 on the tree trucks and cars .  Like above, dont get in a hurry, it will work .   I drove a chevy van with a 350 4bbl and 3 on the tree LOL. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2021 at 1:46pm
Hello, after a long absence on here I wanted to tell you that our 63 Rambler American 440 is finally shifting and driving with little issue.  Her pressure plate snapped in half at one point and of course that, along with the bushings had to be addressed and since that work was completed a few weeks back, I'm happy to say she shifts into all the gears pretty well.  Occasionally I must let the clutch out and back in again while in neutral in order to go into reverse but that has been quite infrequently (thankfully!) and I have had a great time driving her!  Today she will "go under the knife" for control arm work as that area of the car requires some work which I'll be glad to be on the other side of.  No doubt our mechanic feels the same way....   Still a few other things to work out here and there, but she's been road worthy and manages to draw a good bit of attention!   :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/12/2021 at 6:13am
Just remember that when down-shifting these old transmissions DO NOT down-shift into FIRST while moving! Below 10 mph it should be safe, but don't use first for slowing except in an emergency! First isn't synchronized because it was never intended to be used for anything but taking off with a load or on a hill, only used on occasion. When these transmissions were designed in the 30s that's how people drove: used SECOND to take off most of the time (except with a heavy load or on a hill) then shifted to third. That's why the column shifter is laid out like it is -- it is spring loaded to pop toward the dash so it's just up (2nd) and down (3rd) while driving, not a lot of shifting. When BW introduced the "automatic overdrive" you had a third gear that required no additional shifting. Engines were usually big with low compression and lots of low speed torque, and axle ratios were low. Top speeds weren't very high since there were few roads that allowed speeds much over 50 mph. There were some cars like the Duesenbergs that were fully capable of attaining 100 mph, just very few places to safely test that, except maybe an airport runway.
Frank Swygert
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